Me too, maine longhorn. Sounds like she just needed a friend. Big difference between lonely and sociopathic
This isn’t right either. Dealers need licenses. There is no license required for possession or purchase.
Well, apparently most people are unwilling to find a machine gun made before 1986, fill out ATF form 4, get passport photos and fingerprints taken, complete a certificate of compliance, and submit all that to ATF and wait for approval of the transfer. Thank God.
The Columbine shooters weren’t loaners. They had a group of friends, went to the prom, had activities at school.
We have a situation here where a 9th grader committed suicide. His family has started a campaign in his name but they want someone to blame, and the other 9th grade students (and their parents) feel blamed (it’s fairly public and police are involved). This boy killed himself but could easily have become a shooter (IMO). The boy was not quiet or isolated but part of a group, several teams, attended the big, popular high school.
The FBI says most shooters are neither mentally ill nor loners:
This is what we are taught in school as well.
It’s good to be sure all students have friends, but not being popular doesn’t make one a mass murder wannabe.
Adding that what we try to teach to prevent shootings and suicides are coping techniques for everyday issues. GF broke up with you? Shooting her or her new BF is wrong. Then too, “everyone has these feelings at some point,” and “here are some things you can do instead” which range from talking with a counselor to going out for a run or anything else (non-violent) that can allow one’s brain/body to go on with life. Two years later it will just be a story told with a laugh, but those who act impulsively don’t see that. It’s something they need to learn.
Too many people see shooting others as a perfectly valid choice after they have been “wronged.” That’s the danger. It’s not mental illness or number of friends.
I can comprehend that reaction. What I don’t get is shooting strangers or acquaintances.
In workplace shootings or school shootings, I expect the shooters don’t think the victims are strangers. In events like the Aurora Theater shooting or the Vegas concert, those seem to be more for the impact, the randomness.
But many are just acquaintances and did no wrong to the shooter.
I’d imagine it depends upon the type of shooting you’re talking about. What kind of person, at a young age, shoots up people at their high school or college? That is likely different than the workplace shooting, the domestic abuse killers, the religious extremist murders. The study that you linked appeared to cherrypick the murderers for their study so they could come to the conclusion that it’s mostly angry white men, conveniently leaving out the large numbers of gang shootings. Apparently their victims aren’t of significant consequence to matter.
I am completely against unlimited access to guns, but I realize that’s another conversation, not for this forum. And there are reasons to be generous and inclusive to other people besides trying ensure you aren’t going to be murdered. I think those of us who have felt they or their kids have been socially isolated could come up with many reasons.
I’m all for kindness initiatives, but let’s stop pretending those would deter school shootings, or that they are in any way a response to them. The reason people don’t care as much about gang shootings is that they are not members of gangs, so their personal risk from such events is tiny. Almost everyone is at risk of being in the movies, concerts, church, school, or workplace at the wrong time.
I’ve been thinking about what other types of skills we might want to start teaching kids in public classrooms, and I think emotional intelligence is something that can be taught to a great degree. Even as critical thinking skills seem to be less of a priority as we turn to the idea that mastery of reading, math and science are all kids really need to prepare for the adult world, recognizing the emotional needs of children as they mature also gets short shrift. Teaching kids to cope with their feelings, communicate those feelings in a non-hurtful manner, support one another emotionally, and live cooperatively, would go a long way toward curtailing a lot of violence and interpersonal conflict. Skills like learning how to listen, how to deal with stress, how to be compassionate and respect the needs of others, understanding what friendship truly is, what it means to be responsible as a member of society, identifying what values we should embrace as human beings living cooperatively…things of that sort. I don’t think these things should be entirely left to parents to teach their children (as many of us lack these abilities as well), nor to should they be left entirely to religious institutions. I’m sure some people (perhaps a lot of people) will be skeptical, if not outright dismissive of the idea, but perhaps Emotional Intelligence curricula could be developed that functions as an integral aspect of education. High emotional intelligence prevents a lot of problems and innoculates against many mental illnesses. I would even go as far as to say an emotionally intelligent population would be largely non-violent. Crazy idea, right?
Not a crazy idea at all, @poetsheart, I think you’re absolutely right.
For those who believe it’s the world out to get them and not just one person, they are part of the world.
Some others just kill whoever else is around including those they target figuring if they’re friends or in any way associated, they are just as “worthy” as a target (hate using that word in this context!).
I believe gang shootings are understood - no one things they are great, but they are understood. What they are still working to figure out are the increasing numbers of these other shootings. Hence, the separation of the two groups. Schools in some areas have to combat these too. Fortunately, my school is not one of them.
@poetsheart This is exactly what our program at school is trying to address. It starts in elementary school and runs through the reasoning ages of middle and high school. We can’t count on home life to teach such things. Not all, but many kids appreciate the chance to talk about such things as long as the teacher takes it seriously. Unfortunately, some do not. Just because someone teaches doesn’t mean they’re inclined to wanting to teach anything more than what’s in their field.
This article doesn’t seem self-consistent. It goes on to say how common depression and paranoia are among mass shooters. Depression and paranoia aren’t only concerning behaviors. They are types of mental illnesses or symptoms of other mental illnesses.
[quote]
The FBI said that most of the shooters “experienced multiple stressors” such as financial or marital problems, or professional and personal disputes before launching their attacks.
**That often results in “concerning behaviours” such as depression, paranoia, ** violent acts and direct or indirect threats, as well as skipping work or difficulty in communicating with others.
After finding the actual study, I believe it was mischaracterized by the news article you linked to. It is true: “In this context, it is exceedingly important to highlight that the FBI could only verify that 25% (n = 16) of the active shooters in Phase II were known to have been diagnosed by a mental health professional with a mental illness of any kind prior to the offense.” That does not mean 75% of shooters were not mentally ill. In other cases, the FBI could not get access to the relevant medical records, so “The FBI could not determine if a diagnosis had been given in 37% (n = 23) of cases.” That doesn’t mean the remaining 38% were not mentally ill, as they could have had a mental illness, which wasn’t diagnosed by a psychologist or psychiatrist. Many mentally ill people do not seek treatment. Most active shooters did show signs of mental health problems.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/pre-attack-behaviors-of-active-shooters-in-us-2000-2013.pdf/view
This sounds horrible that one kid is nice to another kid, who if they do match the profile is likely depressed and/or suicidal. Can you imagine how awful high school would be if everyone was nice to the depressed/suicidal kids?
Interesting. It looks like the study did not back up the newspaper’s representation that most shooters are white men with no mental illness, but with grudges and unhappy about their lot in life. I guess it’s all how you want to portray these horrors, what conclusion you wish to come to. When you look at the study, you realize that as far as shooters, whites are not over-represented as far as the population in shooting incidents, but Hispanics are significantly under-represented. Over-representations are in the groups of Asians, Blacks, and American Indians. But it’s from such a small group of people, I doubt if the numbers are even statistically significant. Not sure how you make sweeping conclusions from 63 selected people.
@Leigh22 I certainly don’t espouse burying my head in the sand. I just know that without DRAMATIC gun law reform this will happen again and again and again. As I said before, if the wholesale slaughter of white, upper-middle-class 5-year olds attacked and murdered in their own classrooms didn’t bring about significant gun law reform, certainly yet another workplace shooting of adults won’t bring about an iota of change either.
Mark my words… within another 10-12 months, we’ll have another thread on this topic. More murder. More “shock” and diddly squat done about it because apparently AMERICA DOESN"T GIVE A HOOT. (and I don’t mean hoot, either.)
Was that a typo and you actually meant to say within the next 10-12 weeks? Or maybe 10-12 days?
10-12 months seems quite optimistic…