<p>I still say that the GPA doesn’t tell the full story. What if the 3.0 for 9th and 10th grade was based on As in gym, band, etc., and Cs in English, Math, and History? And if the 4.1 in 11th and 12th was based on a similar pattern? What if there were a couple of Ds in that 3.0? I think this article has created a lot of stress, but it didn’t really give enough facts to understand the particular kids true situation.</p>
<p>I just can’t imagine agreeing to be the subject of that article and opening the door to all this speculation. Maybe they thought it would iincrease the chances of a successful appeal? Maybe they thought it could start a ground swell for Virginia changing its admission policies or perhaps an invitation to the Dr. Phil show is in the works.</p>
<p>Momzie is absolutely correct. I’m from VBeach and that was my high school grading scale as well. AP’s are minimally weighted and Honors are not. </p>
<p>However…JMU (and all colleges) is very familiar with the grading scales and rigors of ALL the high schools, both in state and out of state, that typically apply to their school. Those students who choose to go the IB track or the Magnet track should understand that this could potentially derail their plans for a beloved first choice. A few B’s and often all hope is lost…</p>
<p>JMU used to have a rep in Virginia as being a “safety school”. William and Mary and UVA have always drawn the very top students. Virginia Tech is on a major rise as it should be…it’s a wonderful school and appeals to a lot of students. JMU will never be looked at the same again. Those students who don’t get into the two powerhouses in VA, will either choose VT or JMU. Now all of you wait and see how Christopher Newport University climbs that ladder. A hidden gem and on the path to being a top school. Mary Washington is a top school which appeals to the student looking for smaller classes and a smaller school feel. </p>
<p>Virginia has some of the best public colleges in the nation.</p>
<p>SIL just got back from taking their twin D’s to Christopher Newport. I’m not sure what the girls thought, but she’s ready to sign on herself, and she said all the parents said the same. It looks like it’s repositioning itself like TCNJ did. I’d never heard of it before,but now that’s twice in three days.</p>
<p>garland- another school in NJ getting more selective Ramapo had a 36% acceptance rate with average SAT’s of 1180 this year. I think they want to challenge TCNJ for the #1 state college in NJ.</p>
<p>I agree with many other posters that the number of OOS applicants that VA IS schools accept is very frustrating. We live in a rural area of VA with a very strong public HS. During the first two years of HS students can only take one weighted class. Our grading scale is the same as others 94-100 is an A. We had a number of kids with SAT’s in the 2100-2200 range not get into VT, UVA or WM. Look at the numbers for admitts for UVA. They took almost as many out of state kids as IS. Obviously they expect more OOS to decline their offer so they accept more to get their yield but I think it’s time to look at increasing instate numbers!
Overall offer rate: 35.7% (6,628 total offers)
Overall VA offer rate: (3,372 offers)
Overall OOS offer rate: (3,256 offers)</p>
<p>Lets face it, if UVA and W&M only accepted in-state students, they wouldn’t have the national reputations they currently enjoy. A mix of in-state and OOS keeps the student body diverse and interesting. Furthermore, those OOS help keep the in-state tuition costs down for VA residents. As the legislature gives less support to higher ed (and this year’s budget crunch suggests that’s not going to change anytime soon), schools have to find ways to make it up, and without private school sized endowments, OOS is the easiest way. BTW, I say this as a Mom in NOVA who has a kid joining the “Tribe” next year…</p>
<p>"Furthermore, those OOS help keep the in-state tuition costs down for VA residents. "</p>
<p>But what good does that do our in-state children if they aren’t accepted to VA public schools, even though their stats are good.</p>
<p>I think the stat needs to be 18% like Chapel Hill’s. In Virginia, we would have no problem keeping the standards of excellence up in our state schools. It makes me very sad for the children who are A students who are not able to get into our state’s flagship colleges.</p>
<p>The frustration that Virginia parents are feeling is understandable, but they are failing to see the big picture - admissions is similarly problematic everywhere. Further restricting OOS enrollments would lessen the quality of the Virginia institutions, their reputations regionally and nationally, would diminish the experience for their students, and would result in significant tuition increases for all in-state students. </p>
<p>I attended W&M as an in-state student 25 years ago. I now live in Delaware but my son is at W&M and we are paying OOS tuition. The current in-state tuition is a bargain for the quality of the education at W&M or UVa or Va Tech, or JMU, etc. I live five minutes from the University of Delaware, where the majority of students are from out of state, and there are similar complaints in Delaware. Of course, Delaware only has three public colleges - DelTech, a community college, Delaware State, which is not viewed very positively, and UD, so UD is the only viable option to many Delaware families. </p>
<p>The diversity brought by OOS students benefits the learning communities of the Virginia schools academically, socially, politically, etc. Years of few OOS getting in and graduating and filtering back into the regional and national communities would lessen the awareness and respect that the Virginia schools currently enjoy. As an alumnus of W&M, I have found that it is known all across the nation and viewed positively. </p>
<p>When I was in college, schools like JMU and Mary Washington were very much safety schools but that is no longer the case, so our generation of parents have to adjust their thinking and consider looking at the ODUs, Radfords, etc. </p>
<p>That is not very comforting, I know, when you feel your child was squeezed out of a school for which he or she is qualified. But the reality is that students who are qualified are getting squeezed out at such school all over the country just because there are so many qualified applicants for limited spaces. </p>
<p>–K9Leader</p>
<p>Look at it this way: it’s not that qualified students are going down to schools that used to be safe schools; rather, those schools are moving up.</p>
<p>I completely agree with posts #51 and 52. Well said, K9Leader. Also, don’t forget about Christopher Newport. This is another school on the rise in Va.</p>
<p>Interesting letter to the editor in today’s Washington Post. Hope the link works. </p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/19/AR2008041901604.html]washingtonpost.com[/url”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/19/AR2008041901604.html]washingtonpost.com[/url</a>]</p>
<p>Personally, I think it would be sad if the University of Virginia began to accept fewer out of state students in favor of say, more than 70% of offers going to instate students. It is the mission of UVA to educate the best from around Virginia and the United States, hence its reputation as a so-called “public ivy.” Honestly, rather than go for more in-state students (the out of state students are generally more qualified to attend UVA as a group than in state students), I would much prefer to see UVA become a private institution.</p>
<p>In case you can’t do the link the numbers are:
Specifically, the University of Virginia’s incoming freshman class is 72 percent in-state; Virginia Tech, 70 percent; William & Mary, 66 percent; and JMU, 65 percent. Compare these statistics with other premier public institutions: the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, 83 percent in-state; the University of California at Berkeley, 92 percent; UCLA, 94 percent; and the University of Texas at Austin, 94 percent.</p>
<p>VA used to support their higher education more but have been on a reduce taxes binge for a while now and the OOS percentage has been increasing. The really disturbing trend in at W&M and JMU and beyond where they now have to continue to take more oos to make up their budget shortfalls. There has been no discussion of where the right number is, but I don’t think another state would put up with having ALL their major in-states taking fewer of their own best and brightest. Some balance needs to be provided somewhere.</p>
<p>Barq45 - I do believe I hear the sound of Mr. Jefferson spinning in his grave. </p>
<p>Whatever Virginia is doing, it is workiing - at least with regard to elevating the reputation and quality of its state schools. William and Mary perhaps has accomplished what it wanted too - surpassing UVA in selectivity. When I was there, the scores and admit rate for UVA nudged out W&M a bit, but that seems to have reversed now. </p>
<p>I grew up in Virginia and 30 years ago, when I graduated from college, there was Madison College, VPI, Mary Washington College, Christopher Newport College. All of the top students fought to get into UVA and W&M. The ones who couldn’t get in went private or out of state. My dream school was UNC but my parents couldn’t afford to send me OOS. Christopher Newport was a 2 year program connected to William & Mary - more like a community college. Mary Washington was all girls and Madison was still very much a teacher’s college. VPI was the state “cow college.” It is astounding to me the change at these schools. </p>
<p>Now, in effect, in state kids have more choices. There are kids “choosing” some of the others over UVA and W&M - not just settling for them. </p>
<p>Virginia cannot have it both ways. The growing conservatism of the state - with the exception of NoVa - led to tax cuts that led to cutting higher education funds. It took a ton of money for Tech and JMU to get where they are and it didn’t all come from Virginia.</p>
<p>My dog-eared 1997 issue of USN&WR lists William and Mary as having 67% instate students, and UVA 66% instate students. Each school has grown by about 300 undergraduates since then.
I have no doubt that is the echo-boom and the underlying population growth of Virginia that has made instate acceptance harder. There has been NO shift to favoring out-of-state applicants for money or any other reason.</p>
<p>I have enjoyed reading this thread. My D is OOS at UVA (transfer). She did not gain admission to the top school in Maine, but was admitted to many top schools outside of Maine, including UVa. I feel her residency hurt her chances for admission in Maine, who’s top college seeks about 90% of its students from “away”! She is thriving at UVA so it all worked out fine. It is a fabulous university.</p>
<p>I don’t see how limiting the number of OOS students will affect reputation. UNC-CH has a fine reputation and they limit OOS students. As to having to raise costs, if VA schools are so popular with OOS, why not raise their rates to the national average. My understanding (and it may be wrong) is the VA OOS rates are very good. It is a shame when qualified students aren’t admitted to their state schools.</p>
<p>If Berkeley and UNC can limit out of state and still remain at the top of publics, then there is no reason Virginia colleges should not limit OOS to 18% like UNC. State schools should focus on in state students or as someone stated, go private.</p>