Walk a Mile in Her Hijab Day

The majority of women who wear a hijab do it because they want to (at least as much as anyone can want a culture that they were raised in). They believe it’s part of their religious duty. Just like many women here in the US believe it immodest to wear pants.

I think a similar analogy to the US would be our ridiculous laws that force women to cover their nipples but not men. Even if this wasn’t law, most women would consider it immodest to go around top less and would continue to wear shirts and swim tops. It’s all about levels. Remember there were times in the western world where wearing pants or showing legs would be drop down scandalous if not illegal. Again, different cultures have different levels. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but I’m saying that just because it’s different doesn’t automatically make it wrong.

Do I think it’s right to force women to wear hijabs? Absolutely not. However, I also know that many of my Muslim friends do it without force or coercion. I know this because many of their female relatives choose not to wear it and it’s perfectly acceptable.

IMHO, none at all, which is why I have consistently referred to ANY group that imposes coverings on women.

@Consolation: Cool, I agree with you. Here’s a question for you, then, to see how thoroughly we agree: Is it wrong for a woman who was raised to wear a hijab or sheitel to do so of her own volition once she’s well into adulthood?

Is it “wrong”? No, it isn’t “wrong.” I would say that it is highly unfortunate that she has internalized the message that such coverings convey. On the other hand, she should have the right to wear what she wants and to feel comfortable.

I think that romani’s points in #100 are well taken.

What is “wrong” in my view is not the woman, but the religious/societal structure that forces women into covering, either by law (religious or civil), by fear of attack, or by fear of ostracism.

But doesn’t making such a value judgment (that is, “that she has internalized the message that such coverings convey”) on your part require mind-reading not just once, but twice: first by reading the mind of the woman wearing the item to determine her motivations, and second by mind-reading all of the members of the cultural group she’s a part of to determine what the item means to those in that group?

I tend to be skeptical of claims that require mind-reading.

I don’t think mind reading is required when the reasons for requiring the item in the first place are openly stated.

I realize that am viewing another culture through the lens of MY particular slice of my culture. But when it comes to things like female genital mutilation, covering for a “modesty” that is not required of men, and other things that gratuitously restrict the lives of women, sorry. I’m gonna do it.

That article on “honor killing” in the US leaves out the murders by fundamentalist Mormons that were featured in “Under the Banner of Heaven”. Too bad because they fit the profile too.

@dfbdfb "But doesn’t making such a value judgment (that is, “that she has internalized the message that such coverings convey”) on your part require mind-reading not just once, but twice: first by reading the mind of the woman wearing the item to determine her motivations, and second by mind-reading all of the members of the cultural group she’s a part of to determine what the item means to those in that group?

I tend to be skeptical of claims that require mind-reading."

You are correct that the participants may not consciously see it that way Consolation is describing it. It is also true that many of the members of the cultural group do not see it that way at all. Most people who are members of a group, honestly believe that they are the “good guys.” It takes a strong, open, honest mind to see the bad in your own group and ask whether the group offers the same rights to all races, beliefs, and sexes, and not then rationalize away the bad.

Previously you mentioned that “…we all have our traditions that seem a bit off, and often coercive and oppressive, to those outside our cultural group.”

@dfbdfb Substituting the phrase “many of us” for “we all” I would say that you have this exactly right. It is easier to see the faults on other groups and rationalize the faults of our own group.

The mistake that then followed was the suggestion that many groups coerce and oppress others, so that is fine because we all do it. It is not fine in any group. We should be trying to end it in all groups not accepting it. Unfortunately, many people can only understand this when their group is the victim. Then they think it is a big deal.

We can’t successfully integrate different groups in society by just pointing out the shortcomings of other groups and failing to address the coercion/oppression/hate in our own group. How can we teach children that all people should have equal rights and respect, if we have not taught them to accord equal rights and respect to all members of our own groups?

Ultimately, if we can get conservatives of all races, sexes, and belief systems to treat everyone else with respect, there will be peace. If we fail at this, then wars and killing that hardline believers on all sides want, will continue and probably escalate.

You pointed out that I don’t see issues like people in your group, because I am not in the group, and you are right. However, consider the possibility that it is the non-group members who see things more clearly in all groups. Also consider that most of us are only in the group we are in by an accident of our birth. Who your parents are usually determines whether you are a Jew, Christian, Muslim or something else. That means that each of us could just as easily be in another group besides the one we are in. To have a peaceful world we all need to put an end to oppression and hate in all groups including our own. If everyone continues to point it out hate and oppression in other groups, but rationalizes it and refuses to change it within their own group, we will never make progress.

On the topic of being coerced to wear a headscarf:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/air-france-crew-angry-at-order-to-wear-headscarf-in-iran/2016/04/04/22df6d84-fa61-11e5-813a-90ab563f0dde_story.html