<p>Locally that’s not happening… no positive results online or in person. We live rural. There isn’t a whole lot of choice. The guy I go to is nice enough in person and maintenance has its benefits I suppose. I doubt he’s seen a ton of “outside the bell curve” stuff.</p>
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<p>I am thinking of just starting here and seeing what happens. I was a little worried if I masked the pain that I could do worse damage, but that doesn’t seem to be the case with anything I’ve been reading.</p>
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<p>It was suggested often enough that I requested it be tested. Supposedly the results were in the “normal” range. I was rather bummed as it would have been a nice, easy, fix - or at least easier.</p>
<p>MUST get up and move now… but I do appreciate all the thoughts - seriously. I’ll try to answer any future thoughts (if they come) after some movement!</p>
<p><a href=“Spine | University of Maryland Medical Center”>Internal Error; The tingling/numbness in your hands could be due to conpression of the spinal cord from cervical spinal stenosis. If the problem degenerates greatly, it could require spinal fusion surgery.</p>
<p>This can be tried. We have epsom salts here, but to be honest, to date they’ve only been used on ponies who happen to have abscesses in their hooves… Eh - we’re all mammals. Similar things can work.</p>
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<p>This one has suddenly triggered that inability to read again - esp since it’s difficult to dismiss, but at least there’s been no problem with walking (yet). I don’t think there’s been motion issues either, nor spasms, nor position sense…</p>
<p>However, should conditions continue to progress to where my reading ability returns, does this come with a neurologist vote?</p>
<p>Ibuprofen sounds like a much easier thing to deal with. Alien attacks might also rank higher. Epsom salt definitely ranks higher. Where is that snake oil salesman… he might have something…</p>
<p>One more question came up as I was pondering…</p>
<p>If it’s any of these more serious things, why the variability? Why bad enough to get me reconsidering my life thought/values/way of living (or whatever) on one day and willing to ask complete strangers (albeit with decent knowledge records from other threads), yet on other days in the same week I feel almost nothing or just mild effects? (The “always there” numbness is still around, but the muscle stuff that can make life miserable is not.)</p>
<p>With the BT, an issue (vision) came up and it was there - perhaps getting worse, but never better. Sooner or later (ok, later, 18 months later) I did decide to see if it could be fixed. But variability was never part of the game.</p>
<p>This question makes me wonder if it’s mental or something along the lines of B12 (even though that’s not it according to the blood test) as levels of that could vary, right? Or inflammation caused by ? at some times, but that common denominator is not there at others. I’ve yet to find a common denominator, but still wonder if there isn’t one.</p>
<p>Or is there something I just don’t know/realize? (Well, I know there’s a LOT I don’t know esp medically, but just talking about the theory.)</p>
<p>This is going to make me sound like a western-medicine-denialist, which I am absolutely NOT. I love western medicine. But… I’m also a huge believer in the very traditional treatments that were the ONLY treatments available before modern medicine: soaks in hot water (hot springs), swimming, sunshine, change of climate, special foods. If a hot shower in the morning makes you feel better, try a hot bath at bedtime too. </p>
<p>You ask about variability… one day good, one day not so good. I’d recommend keeping an excruciatingly detailed journal of what you eat and what you do. There may be an environmental or activity link that you’re missing. (I know, for example, that my knees hurt for two days if I run four miles, but only one day if I walk four miles.)</p>
<p>Op,
I have not read all the responses. I have read your post and I am a MD. So much detail that it’s hard for me to focus on so much, but here are my thoughts:
Numbness at 5th and 4th fingers bilateral means compression of your ulnar nerve. For it to happen bilateral, then then defect is at the spine where nerves edit the spinal cord. Think spinal stenosis or disc herniation at level of c7 ish I believe
Numbness at toes, I forgot my peripheral nerve anatomy but basically same thing at lumbar spine.
3 yes, this is not related to radiation of brain since this is related to peripheral nerves while your brain is central nervous system. But anything going on in your head such as headaches could be related to radiation. That part takes a good amount of time after all radiation is done. (Did u have a meningioma?)
You should get an MRI with gadolinium of your entire spine (c,t,l,s)
Make an appt with a neurologist (who can evaluate peripheral nerves) and then possibly a spine surgeon (either orthopod or neurosurgeon)
Order of items should be neurologist appt, who will order MRI with gad, then followup to review MRI results, and depending on results, either physical therapy or spinal surgery.</p>
<p>Op,
One more thing, micro trauma to the area can cause inflammation which exacerbates the symptoms. Would recommend ibuprofen 2 pills when you get numbness.</p>
<p>This is one of those situations when, as stated on Advil bottles, “if the pain does not improve in a week, see a doctor”. I personally think this is the time to follow up on the advice given to you by the poster above and to see a neurologist or a pain specialist. </p>
<p>But I would still see a hand/extremities person before going the neurologic/surgical route. Why? When you start on one path, you commit to that path and neurology sees things in a specific way. You may benefit simply from physical therapy (and maybe chiropractic, which I never thought I’d say until recently). I don’t know your physical condition and thus whether you’d benefit from remedial personal training, something more people should do I believe. I mean seeing a personal trainer, explaining your issues and working out in a guided manner so you get better and stronger and learn the right physical habits. That isn’t physical therapy. It’s a remaking of your body.</p>
<p>As an example, I have most of my tingling in my right hand but it does sometimes occur in my left. I probably have some spinal stenosis but then I’m nearly 60. I probably have some disc wear, especially in my neck, but again I’m nearly 60. My best results came from a) the pillow tied around my arm when it was really bad, then b) personal training that built up my strength and fixed a bunch of physical ailments including a partially frozen shoulder and a hip which was under discussion for surgery. I never imagined I could back squat real weight when I couldn’t hold my arm up to grab the bar and couldn’t bend my right hip. And I was on crutches for a locked knee that was fixed through the same process (after a really well-placed cortisone shot knocked the inflammation down). So what I’m saying is I’d explore the paths that don’t lead directly to surgery first because that path is always there but these others tend to disappear when you go down that road. </p>
<p>MY Plan A to deal with my brain tumor was to take a month and head to an overwater bungalow at Bora Bora. Get some daily radiation from the sun, basic chemo from a nightly Mojito, and general healing from the salt water snorkeling. For some reason… the health share system we belong to wouldn’t cover that. I suspect it would have been cheaper. And my family/friends, etc, outvoted me (though many offered to come along and be my personal assistant). My mom mentioned killing me if I’d even tried… which was tempting to challenge as it WOULD have put an end to the issue at hand.</p>
<p>I’ll never know if it would have worked. The only way we could cover THAT one on our own would be to explain to our boys that college is no longer REALLY important for them, so they ought to keep their summer jobs permanently. I’m not sure that would go over well… nor be the best path for their futures.</p>
<p>Still hunting for common denominators though. That’s my first instinct when anything goes wrong. I’m a science/math person by nature.</p>
<p>Sorry for the oodles of details… it’s difficult to know what is important - or not - for me and with introducing the topic, esp written vs verbally.</p>
<p>Your thoughts are definitely appreciated and sound reasonable.</p>
<p>Yes, the tumor is a meningioma - only treated with radiation due to its location (and that was fine by me - well - once I gave up on my Bora Bora Plan A). They say it (or the radiation) is likely the cause of all the head “stuff” except the back of the head pain and all the other numbness/muscle stuff mentioned here. For that they recommended a neurologist if I was bothered by it, telling me it was outside their specialty.</p>
<p>Since then I’ve been trying to figure out how “bothered” by it I am. And that depends upon the day.</p>
<p>Last night I tried two ibuprofen. I woke up still as numb as before, but totally without the pain component I usually get by morning. That felt great (not sarcastic) and was actually something I could live with if that were as bad as it will get.</p>
<p>The “usual” arm muscle that can be affected is only slightly twingy this morning. I’ve no clue if that is ibuprofen masked or natural as it can be that way having taken nothing. It’s part of the variable bit.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, I feel much better (so far) this morning. I thought I’d regret starting this thread when I felt better. In reality I actually feel better with more concrete explanations/possibilities, some of which make me think I might not be going off the deep end - perhaps more of a concern for me than I thought.</p>
<p>This is definitely something I’ll think about over the next few days. I know myself too well to think I’d even remotely call anyone on a “good” day. (Besides, it’s a weekend…) I wouldn’t mind plotting a plan for the next “bad” day when my natural reluctance is more easily overcome. Ibuprofen (solely at night - not continually) ought to buy a bit of time - I think. Time will tell.</p>
<p>From a potential “doomed genetically” perspective, my dad has had (and still has) back issues that affect his walking. He’s chosen shots for it and needs them on a regular basis. Even then, he’s not up to 100% at any particular time. He’s never mentioned anything about hands/numbness though. His “named” issue is sciatica (sp?) I think. That’s at least part of it.</p>
<p>I will likely spend some time looking at the specialties of the two neurologist names I’ve been given - and perhaps will do some google searching for more “non-surgical” types too.</p>
<p>The brain has a lot to think about at this point, but at least it’s more directional than it was. That’s a start. </p>
<p>I’m not a medical professional, but my DS had an injury involving joint swelling several years ago. The ortho doc advised continual use of Ibuprofen for one week to resolve the swelling. Maybe one of our medical experts here will confirm /dispute this advice, but it seems you might benefit from continual use rather than just 1x per day. </p>
<p>I take piroxicam for osteo-arthritis. It’s significantly more effective than ibuprofen. The advantage of piroxicam is it really takes the edge off real pain … but all these things have potentially severe side effects. Some involve the heart, meaning they can kill you. They can cause ulcers in the esophagus (happened to a relative taking meloxicam). I know someone who needed a liver because of too much tylenol. So I would say keep the number of pills as low as possible. </p>
<p>We all bring personal histories to bear. Example: I had a terrible tingling/burning/pain sensation radiating in my arm, just too weird to describe accurately. Got nowhere with an MRI. My hand specialist diagnosed it as a relatively rare virus in the shoulder nerve region … but was it the specialty or, as he admitted, that he had had the same thing? Went away just as he said it would. Another example: my mother developed a pile of symptoms that looked at first like an anemia … treatment didn’t work, B12 etc. levels weren’t that low, thyroid tests didn’t show anything, L-dopa worked for 3 days and then didn’t, week at the Mayo Clinic, about as much imaging as a body can have without glowing in the dark … and no answers. That’s the reality of a lot of cases involving the nerves, the brain, etc. Over time whatever the heck she had looked more like a peripheral neuropathy but then it didn’t and we still have no idea what happened to her, why it progressed, etc. </p>
<p>That’s why I suggest picking pathways that lead you through a variety of choices instead of picking the one specialty and its solutions. It’s why, for example, when I dislocated my ribs this winter - very painful, don’t recommend - I went to a chiropractor first (and she shoved them into place) rather than get imaging, PT, etc. I could go that route second if necessary. </p>
<p>And sometimes you just don’t know. I started working with a trainer because I was worried that, with arthritis, intermittent vertigo and the way I was becoming limited in certain activities, I’d start to sit around and degenerate. I was surprised it worked so well. As I got stronger and better focused on techniques, I was able to - as mentioned - unfreeze my shoulder. It was painful - pinning my arm to the ground with a weight and then working my body flat - but I was able to do it because I was on that pathway. I remember when I couldn’t deadlift anything because my hip would painfully bind and then hurt for days until I could barely walk. Now deadlifting is just about my favorite thing. My hip no longer hurts. My grip is much stronger and my arthritis in my hand is probably 90% better. My elbows no longer scream at me and so on. I couldn’t lift my left arm above shoulder level or stick it out to the side and now that pain is completely gone.</p>
<p>(As more explanation, I found that the horrible tightness and pain in my shoulder was connected to tightness lower in my back and that relaxing the back area was necessary. I’d pin my arm out to the side or over my head and then try to lie flat. If not for the other training, I’d never have realized the connection between the parts.)</p>
<p>I would listen to Yohoyoho. Someone who actually knows what they are talking about.</p>
<p>Also, western medicine does not preclude using techniques from other sources. My medical practice has a “complementary medicine” group. They are all MDs, but they employ techniques such as acupuncture, nutrition/herbal supplements, stretches and exercises, and manipulation that may come from PT or "chiropractice, " I don’t know. I had a chronic pain issue after wrenching myself in a near-accident while driving, and I could not sleep without hydrocodone. The first doctor I saw --I was OOS–gave me a short descending course of steroids in order to “cool it off,” as she said, but she said I should see my regular doctor and would probably have an MRI if it didn’t resolve. It appeared that the nerve was being pinched by inflammation of the piriformis muscle. No amount of stretches or ibuprofen helped, and the pain was radiating down my leg so that even the skin was very painful to the touch. One session of accupuncture, and the pain “broke up” immediately and dissipated steadily until it was gone in a couple of weeks. (I had had it for a few months.)</p>
<p>Something about being raised with the concept/belief that “That which doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger,” coupled with a PCP who hasn’t seemed concerned about it, a brain MRI that showed nothing “else” wrong, and good days wondering if they were all “right” and my brain was just going off the deep end.</p>
<p>Then… add to that… a total lack of knowledge as to WHERE to go as some of us truly aren’t raised with medical “anything” in our histories (beyond basic vaccs and similar, and one accident when I was nine) and there are a whole lot of options (with conflicting info about them) out there.</p>
<p>Then… it’s totally out of my comfort zone - period. Ask me to get up and speak to a group of thousands because your speaker has been delayed for 20 minutes- no problem - but this?</p>
<p>It seriously takes a bit to overcome the past - at least - for some of us. I have to override a ton of built in or trained beliefs/thoughts/whatever. It’s not needles (or whatever) that may be out there. Up until recently I was a regular blood donor (voluntarily) for years. It’s something else - sort of unknown - just comfort zone stuff I guess.</p>
<p>More power to you if you don’t have to deal with/overcome it.</p>
<p>And tons of appreciation to those assisting with building up my knowledge in this area.</p>