My son will enter college having completed BC Calc. One day he thinks he’ll choose Wash U, and the following day, he prefers Emory. Thank you for your insights.
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This post really covered a bunch of things I was going to note about WashU. So I will just say at a general level that as soon as the OP described in detail what their kid was envisioning in a college experience, I immediately thought they were describing a kid for whom WashU would be a great fit.
I also want to briefly note that I have a lot of regard for Wake Forest, and I think they particularly do a great job really focusing on providing a great education to their undergraduates. Something like that won’t always show up in things like research-based rankings or income statistics or so on, but I actually think it is a truly critical consideration.
For what it is worth, US News actually does a peer survey specific to this question:
This is easily one of my favorite US News rankings because it isn’t just all the usual suspects with a minor variation in order, it is true mix of all sorts of different universities.
Anyway, Wake Forest is in a tie for #31, which given the broad nature of this list is actually very good. WashU is tied for #56, which again is still quite good. Emory then did not make the list, but since it only goes through #70, it could have been a close miss for all we know.
OK, so I would definitely not use this as the only information you consider, and in fact given it is survey-based there are all sorts of issues that are associated with such a methodology. But still, I think this is verification of the idea that Wake Forest, as they say, is known among its peers for “putting a particular focus on undergraduate teaching.”
And to me that is no small thing, and I would at least consider that in choosing among these colleges.
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Yes, undergrad teaching and focus are essential. Based on everything I know about Emory, I’m surprised they are not on that list. Perhaps the multiple undergrad campuses didn’t fit neatly into the metrics. My son is admitted to the Atlanta campus, but the Oxford campus is solely focused on undergrads. Thank you for your insights.
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and the beauty is - that might be right - meaning, he might have a wonderfully experience at two of them…or even all three. One only goes to one - but that doesn’t mean there’s only one suitable school.
Is diversity important to him? You need things to “eliminate” right - I showed above, Wake is very caucasian but the others aren’t.
Just graspig at straws, trying to figure out how to eliminate one - the first step.
But it might very welll be all three will work out great - so no wrong choice.
In the end, 70 is just a really small number compared to all the national universities where in fact the professors and administrators are working hard to provide a great education.
So although this may sound a little contradictory, I think being on the list, and in fact being pretty high on the list, are both useful pieces of positive information. But I think not making the list is basically no information (as opposed to negative information).
Us news says Emory bba is ranked a bit higher at 14, vs WashU at 18, vs Wake at 36. Quality of education is probably not different, but Quality of first job after graduation probably is.
Here’s how Payscale places these 3 colleges in its rankings, based on alumni career earnings:
#75 - Wash U
#78 - Wake Forest
#101 - Emory
Just to add more to consider, Poets & Quants does some interesting reviews of undergrad business programs. WashU has recently been doing well in their rankings and is up to #6, but Emory is #8, and Wake Forest is #18, so these are not exactly compelling differences. Similarly if you look only at their measure of Career Outcomes, it is WashU #6, Wake #10, Emory #13. I would suggest at this level it is extremely likely your own choices and individual (maybe family) attributes will dominate the determination of your outcomes, not which of these undergrads you attend.
More interesting, I think, are the full descriptions:
I think you can get some sense from those descriptions of what the experience would be like, what they tend to focus on thematically, and so on.
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My son graduated from Wake Forest as a finance major and is an IB analyst at a bulge bracket bank in NYC. The academic experience at Wake is very rigorous and the finance major is particularly so. Classes are small and the teaching is very good.
For example, he had a small private equity class (12 students, taught once a year) where a well-known PE pioneer flew in every week to teach. Each week a different lecturer from the PE universe joined him. He learned a lot and made some good contacts.
Wake is a semi-target for IB, but places a fair number of students in NYC IB each year. My son told me about a third of his finance class is working there.
Double majors are doable, but he will likely have to take some summer classes. The business majors require at least 52 hours vs. 36 for most other majors. My daughter’s advisors helped her manage the workload to add a major in English. One advantage that the double major conferred on her was that she was able to spend a semester with the English department in Wake’s Worrell house program in London.
The business school is very selective. About a third of students drop out of accounting 111 before they’re even able to apply in the spring of their sophomore year. The amount of students admitted is controlled by the number of slots available in the school.
I think the teaching experience might distinguish Wake from the other schools. It’s like a liberal arts college in that respect, but has the social aspects of larger universities like power four sports. The typical student is bright, ambitious, and socially active.
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Is the comment on the parking garages about Wake? We have not visited yet, but I briefly saw their aerial tour video and the large parking lots stood out to me.
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I attended Wake and, frankly, the parking lots were never a consideration. The lots are all on the periphery and the main parts of campus are beautiful.
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Wake’s current location/campus is relatively new, and you can for sure tell it was laid out in the automobile era (the process of moving started circa 1946 and was completed circa 1956).
That said, my impression when visiting was the central part of campus was very walkable-feeling, as were most of the paths to the farther corners.
So personally, while I did find this provision for automobiles noticable, I did not see it as overwhelming the walkable feel.
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Wake Forest’s campus is beautiful, but you have to get out of your car to see it. The campus is also connected by a woodland trail to the university owned Reynolda Village, Reynolda Gardens, Reynolda House Museum, and Graylyn Estate luxury hotel and conference center.
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article301988214.html
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Thank you for your insights, son is Wash U bound. My first visit to campus will be during move in this August, but the photos look beautiful.
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It is a crazy nice campus. Enjoy!
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Yes
As noted it was a turn off to my daughter. But all kids are different. What turns off one doesn’t another etc.