SUNY has a college of environmental science and forestry on the campus of Syracuse U. https://www.esf.edu/ We toured but my daughter was turned off by the big display of taxidermy (circa 2013).
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I was actually surprised that it was so conservation career focused as much of that is hands on and experiential. While all the science and policy is easy to do online, things like tagging bears, field identification and water sampling can not be fully experienced on line.
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But realistically (or hopefully with bears!), not on campus either. I assume they do field work where it will be fruitful. Is that the case?
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I believe the model used to allow some hybrid “residency terms” (my term, it theirs) where online students could do field classes in the Unity area. Now, it seems, only the fully online model will be available which relies on students using their own local natural resources and virtual simulations. For many students those resources are obviously a lot more limited. For undergrads, I can’t imagine anyone doing what S23 is doing in some of his classes in their local area without a seasoned professional along side them. Most entry level jobs want to see previous field work. Many want to know you can physically handle the job and living conditions. One way around this would be to try to get a summer position with a state or federal agency, or to get onto a grad student’s university funded research project, but my son found even those jobs wanted field work. His school provides a summer course at a mountain campus to give students the kind of experience that employers require. It is optional for some majors and required for others.
I think Unity could be filling the need of those that can only do an online model (work, location, family, price, etc), or for those that are continuing their education, but I don’t think it would be a first choice for a kid with other possibilities that is just coming out of high school.
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Depends on the relative costs of a given student’s options. Many students have significant cost constraints for college. I do agree that many would choose the more experiential program, assuming affordability.
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I would think that some schools might find it better to switch to certificate programs rather than trying to continue to offer the necessary courses for a degree program.
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Do certificates w/o a degree resonate with employers in many fields? (genuine question, I never worked in a field this was relevant w/o a degree…I imagine they do in some, but curious how many)… What examples are you thinking of? I know Merrimack in MA and some schools are trying 3 year BAs, and skipping some of the gen ed stuff.. calling them more “applied bachelors” For the first time Mass. colleges will offer three-year degrees | WBUR News
Seems like an Associates rebranded to me, in essence.
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Certificate programs train people for jobs. They don’t need to worry about gen ed requirements or about satisfying accreditors. It cost a lot less to provide this type of program. There seems to be a concerted effort by many these days to downplay the need for a college degree & to push “training,” instead of degrees. Business leaders talk as if they agree. It seems like an opportune time to get on that bandwagon if you’re a struggling school that can provide certificate programs to fill whatever needs currently exist.
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I don’t know. But, many certificate programs are master’s level, meaning they require those who enroll to have a bachelor’s degree.
I agree
Yes, and is supported by the big tech companies offering certificates, and for free (but the tests typically have a smallish fee.) I’m not sure how those are going now that we are seeing a tech pullback in hiring. At least these certificates are low cost.
ETA:
We talked about this on the 3 year degree thread. Everything is so confusing, so much rebranding and moving into other ‘categories’…there are a number of community colleges offering bachelor’s degrees now.
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Because fully online education is difficult to do well.
Like, really difficult.
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In some fields, particularly the trades, your certificate is your qualification for the job—for things like welding, aviation maintenance, culinary arts, millwrighting, engine repair, and so on, a certificate can be incredibly helpful.
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There was a rush– and then a bubble- for the coding academies.
They promised high paying jobs in tech after 18 or 20 weeks of training- and then a certificate. Many of these were private and sometimes predatory operators, and sometimes it worked. A kid without a degree became a competent coder and got a great job. Or a kid with a degree in early childhood education got to reboot without having the expense of another degree.
The long term jury is still out. The medium term jury seems to indicate “it depends”. The premise was that Tech is a bottomless pit and will never stop hiring huge numbers– which seems not to be true– coupled with the premise that a competent coder can successfully compete with someone with a BS in CS– which seems to be true sometimes and often not (kids with CS degrees end up overqualified in many cases, or kids who were marginal CS students end up where they belong which is in “IT adjacent roles”). Enter the Genius Bar at your local mall, which seems to suck up a lot of the excess coding academy grads AND the “I had a C average in CS at my local commuter college and I’m terrible at math” kids.
Finance is another “certificate rich” field. If a company requires a CFP or a CFA or Series 7, then these are valuable to have. Series 7 is an actual professional license and you need to be sponsored by your employer to sit for the test (unless the rules have changed recently). So you need to GET the job first before you get to start on the certification process.
So you can’t really generalize. You have the SHRM (Society of Human Resources Management) which claims to be very, very important except that nobody working in a management role in HR agrees with that, or you have the CPA which is essential if an undergrad accounting major wants to actually work in public accounting.
Caveat emptor. Some are money grabs, some are valuable.
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100% I did a hybrid master’s level degree (mainly online) about 10 years ago, and the profs (this was a VERY prestigious R1 type place) said it was way, way harder than doing in person teaching (especially first few years, but really forever). And, I will say, it was incredibly well done and I could see how this was true as a student. And they had TONS of support from instructional designers, etc etc.
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oh, certificates at Master’s level is another thing altogether!
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Of course, imagine how much more difficult it was in March 2020 for K-12 and college instructors to switch to online / distance format with no advance notice or advance planning, when the alternative was significant risk of death or disability from a virus that there was little information on.
Even after a semester or few of online / distance format, most schools returned to in person format eventually, since online / distance format was not optimal for those schools or their students (even though there may be some schools and students where it works better).
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However, at some places where online/distance format really is not optimal (ahemthe major my department offersahem), student demand means that we now have to offer our programs online, and even worse, largely asynchronous.
This is what worries me about online educational offerings: The regional publics, though they get ignored not just in places like the CC fora but also in reporting on colleges and college students generally, educate about 70 percent of all college students. And those same regional publics are under pressure to offer more and more of their classes asynchronous online, because our students very often have crazy schedules or massive caregiving responsibilities or the like, but a lot of what we offer really shouldn’t be offered that way—but now, if we offer those courses face-to-face, they often don’t get enough enrollment to remain on the schedule.
I’ve long said that the myopia of upper- and upper-middle-class America about college education is stupid, because students can get just as good an education (if not sometimes a better one) at “lower-rated” colleges than at the hyperselectives we tend to obsess over. But this student demand-related shift to asynchronous education at regional publics? That has the potential to turn the purely-perceived quality difference into reality.
/soapbox
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This is really interesting insight! In another thread about AI cheating at Brown I noted that these well-resourced colleges are likely the few that could adopt practices like viva voce exams. This might actually “prove” that they have that real value by ensuring their students know what they purport to know versus other colleges that can’t afford to take that type of action.
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Here’s a recent article on RPU’s: What Life on Most College Campuses is Really Like | Washington Monthly
Agree. Another factor is that some of the online mega universities (like Western Governor’s, SNHU, ASU, Liberty) can offer some online courses/degrees for a lower price than the RPUs.
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Mary Baldwin University struggles: Mary Baldwin University put on probation by accreditation body
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Middle States has their commission actions for June up. Several schools are in non-compliance warning, such as Centenary University in NJ, and Albright College and Chatham University in PA. (Rider remains on non-compliance probation).
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