<p>No they aren’t…</p>
<p>We really need to go single payor, it is the only solution that works for everyone and for the economy.</p>
<p>I don’t understand the new system we have as ultimately solving the problem of cost OR accessibility, not really.</p>
<p>As someone pointed out, the insurance companies might not be able to deny coverage, but they sure as heck can make it too expensive to buy. Don’t we call that a financial “rejection” when it happens with a college.</p>
<p>Go single payor and stop monkeying around with favored and disfavored groups. If healthcare is a human right like clean water and air, which I have come to believe it is, then let’s make sure it gets taken care of.</p>
<p>JMO</p>
<p>Agree with Dstark…as a matter of fact,if you are not negotiating as a cash payer with your docs and dentists,you are making a big mistake…if you know the reimbusement rate, you have a huge advantage in negotiations…</p>
<p>njfootball mom–you are not understanding the SE tax calculation. No, self-employed people are not paying the premiums tax-free, as W2 employees are. See below. You post also highlights another point. If the business has a taxable loss, NONE of the premiums are deductible, even from income tax.</p>
<p>I disagree with your assertion that most employers do not pay a large share. The average cost for a family plan that is group based is somewhere in the area of
$15,000/yr–$1,250 per month for health, not including dental or eye. The average employee is paying nowhere near that for their family coverage</p>
<p>cartera is correct. Self-employed premiums are not deductible as a business expenses. They are deductible for federal income tax. They are NOT deductible when calculating FICA and medicare tax. They are fully deductible for FICA and medicare for a W2 employee.</p>
<p>That’s a large difference, especially when self-employed taxpayers are footing the entire insurance premium.</p>
<p>dstark–what are your premiums? You haven’t posted those. I am also still confused as to why you think that people on corporate plans are subsidizing your insurance?</p>
<p>You do realize that universal health care is not free, correct? </p>
<p>Have you shopped around for different plans with lower rates/deductibles? Around here BC/BS is the most expensive carrier. There are better, lower cost options out there for most people.</p>
<p>Also, if you are self employed, you CAN deduct your insurance premiums, just like a corporation does, if you show a profit, even a profit of a $1. If you are on such a high deductible plan, did you at least sign up for a tax qualified plan so you can take advantage of a HSA? If not, I would do that pronto.</p>
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<p>Seems pretty clear to me too. There are many who don’t agree. They probably would if they weren’t on Medicare or didn’t have employer sponsored policies. Then there are those who use the search function on the Constitution, don’t find the words “health care” and say “let him die.”</p>
<p>Our share of our COBRA was $1100/mn. 61 and 64.
Luckily I was able to get on “Obama Care, insurance exchange” and get on the State’s medical insurance pool at $550/mn with prostate cancer. DW got on temporary, catatrophic, $20,000 limited insurance at $33/mn until she becomes eligible for medicare-which will cost $250/mn (A,B,& D). Her medicare provider will pay the fitness facility fee of $20/mn. Uhhhhrah.</p>
<p>Insurance premiums are miniscule compared to paying taxes.</p>
<p>49% of the US population pays no federal taxes and a larger percentage benefit from some form of social programs.</p>
<p>Talk about subsidies !!!</p>
<p>We should all chime in on the thread “Life isn’t fair, just get over it”</p>
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<p>I have insurance coverage, so my information is not first hand. But from my friend who has no coverage - none of her doctors “negotiate” the cash price. She pays more than my insurance company does for the same procedure. How does that not count as a subsidy to me?</p>
<p>49% of the people who don’t pay taxes—If they did pay taxes, the impact on the budget would be…</p>
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<p>Well…yes they do. If someone does NOT have insurance, the amount billed by the doctor is what they are expected to pay. If they HAVE insurance…this amount is reduced to the “allowable expense” by that insurance company.</p>
<p>At my dentist…if someone does NOT have insurance, a six month check up with xrays is over $300. Fully paid by that patient. If they HAVE insurance…the cost is reduced to $170 or so…the max allowed by the insurance company. </p>
<p>They will NOT negotiate the cost down for the uninsured.</p>
<p>It may not be subsidizing the health insurance industry but it sure is fleecing those who don’t have the money to pay.</p>
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<p>I have really great employer sponsored health care.</p>
<p>But, really, healthcare, clean water, education, clean air, at some point these have to become as important to us as Apache Helicopters and Hydrogen Bombs. just sayin’</p>
<p>Whatever happened to having some skin in the game?</p>
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<p>Federal “income” taxes. They still pay payroll taxes so the number that pays no federal taxes at all is closer to 20%. </p>
<p>As many as 10% of those make $75k-$100k a year so the no federal income tax liability goes pretty far up the spectrum.</p>
<p>Bay, Just because somebody pays more doesn’t mean they are necessarily subsizing somebody else.</p>
<p>If something costs 1,000 and I pay 1,200 and another person pays 1,500… Does that mean the 1,200 guy is subsidized?</p>
<p>Also…we have a big…sucking health care system…That sucks in money to live…</p>
<p>One person pays 20,000 in insurance and 2,000 in a procedure…</p>
<p>Another pays…4,000 for a procedure but no insurance…</p>
<p>Who is really subsidizing who?</p>
<p>Let’s not get in the tax argument because this thread will go bye…bye.</p>
<p>And health care costs are very important to a lot of posters.</p>
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<p>Even those of us in Canada realize this. 
The subsidy argument is an interesting one and particularly so because it can become contentious. With universal healthcare, this is a given when funding comes from general tax revenues. With the crazy amount that my H and I pay in taxes, we clearly are subsidizing the healthcare of others. This is something that we look at as a GOOD thing for many reasons - everyone is covered, there is never a discussion like this one for Canadians, you don’t ever have to worry about becoming uninsurable, you don’t have to worry about losing your job, you never have to fight with an insurance company (or anyone else because you are never a part of any discussion about what is paid directly to the doctor/hospital/lab/clinic by the government health agency) and you don’t ever get a notice about premiums increasing. That’s the beauty of universal healthcare. And (before MiamiDap jumps in with her usual complaints) no, it isn’t perfect but it’s a heck of a lot better than what most people are faced with in the U.S. I know that I say this every year when this discussion comes up but it continues to baffle me why so many fear a single payer system.</p>
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<p>^^who insures you?</p>
<p>I have definitely shopped around. Anyone who has a better program than BC/BS for healthy, with no family history of health problems, individuals - please give us the names of the company </p>
<p>dstark: more than once I have asked what seemed to me a rhetorical question on cc and it really turned out not to be</p>
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<p>Yes, assuming there is a rational basis upon which the fees are determined.</p>
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<p>The second guy is subsidizing the first. The $20K insurance has its own value apart from paying for a procedure. It is the cost of someone else’s assumption of the risk and the cost of protecting your assets from loss due to catastrophic medical expenses.</p>
<p>Steve…my premiums are 16,000 now…maybe going to 20,000…</p>
<p>I looked at HSA plans but did not think there were much cost savings…</p>
<p>I deduct the insurance premiums from my income…</p>
<p>I have a pre-condition…and my health insurance company would not let me go to a cheaper plan…even though I am rated in the top of their pool.</p>
<p>Now the company will let me move once…but they threaten me that I will no longer be grandfathered in and will be subject to future rate increases. They are threatening that they will raise premiums as the new health care plan takes affect, and that the cheaper plans may end up more expensive for me than the plan I am in now.</p>
<p>In the mean time …the last two years my premiums are raised about 20 percent a year.</p>
<p>Plus…I might end up in a lower tax bracket soon. : ).</p>