<p>My reason for divulging what happened long ago was to possibly explain why discrimination might occur . Other than those who would condemn it for religious reasons. Whether you are gay or straight there are certain expectations with regard to behavior. Be it private or public, proper or improper. I believe the gray area exists when we try to define moral vs immoral. Society must have standards or boundaries in order to function. Confrontation comes about when judgement is made over where these boundaries lie. These boundaries expand and contract over time. There will always be a line you should not cross. Passed on from generation to generation. Time changes some things but not all things.</p>
<p>" I got the impression he did this before to other people he did not that well . Who could condone such behavior?"</p>
<p>Just clarifying that I’m not condoning his behavior. I’m saying that as a female, I would not accept a ride from a man unless I knew the man very well because I wouldn’t have wanted to have a pass made at me or to be taken to some off the track place to be assaulted.</p>
<p>I think that my way of thinking about those situations is how wise parents teach their girls to be cautious since that’s the way more than a few men act. It doesn’t surprise me that homosexual men make passes at males in situations that some heterosexual men would do the same to women.</p>
<p>Even if a woman is tired, sweaty, etc., most would be very cautious about accepting a ride from a man whom they didn’t know very well.</p>
<p>That as a male you haven’t had in general to think this way is a big statement about things that women have to consider in society that men in general don’t have to worry about.</p>
<p>I can’t tell you how many times some man has made a crude pass at me when I legitimately thought we were meeting to do homework, discuss business, etc.</p>
<p>If a female had been in your situation, her parents probably would have told her, “I told you not to accept rides from guys.”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>First off, there is a point where kids do discover what it means (I’d guess sometime between ages 10 and 13…perhaps younger now) and they continue to use the words because being gay is often not acceptable to kids (whether that be based on how they were raised or some other factors).</p>
<p>Regardless of how they intend it, it doesn’t change the meaning. You can use the N word all day and say that you aren’t racist but that word still affects other people negatively regardless of how you intend to use it. One should probably educate him/herself prior to using derogatory words.</p>
<p>NSM- so true!</p>
<p>Nope, not anti-gay either. Class of ‘75 - I have the unique situation of my father marrying my stepmother in 66, father passes away in 71, stepmother moves in with her “friend”…who just so happens to be gay. Back then, it was not an acceptable situation and when the parents of my classmates found out and told their kids - I was teased mercilessly - they thought I would “turn” gay because of my living arrangements. Apparently I find out years later that my Dad thought he could “turn her straight” by marrying her. Sad for him. She has been happily “married” to my kids’ Aunt Darlene 
for 28 years. Me, I moved out of the situation and into my mother’s house with her abusive husband. Should’ve stayed in the “gay” house.</p>
<p>ok i am always a little intimidated to post here because i feel like i would sound dumb or something yet i love to read the opinions of such wise parents.</p>
<p>in response to epiphany
most of the girls on facebook that say they are in a relationship or engaged to another female usually are not really with the other female. they might just be friends and are doing it as a joke. i usually do not take anything that i see like that seriously unless i know the person and know it is true. though i do agree with the other posters about coming out when they enter college. many people see college as a ticket to a new life in a way and want to rid themselves of all the trouble in high school which may mean the fear of people “finding out”. </p>
<p><em>sigh</em></p>
<p>janet,
Thanks for the reply. So, if they say “engaged” (to a person of same gender) as a joke, do I take it that the person posting that on a profile is not gay? Or is this an attempt to “keep people guessing?” Or, are they, in the passage of adolescence & college in particular, “experimenting” online merely by talking about it – to get a reaction, for example? Or to question out loud their sexual identity? (And indicate they might want to try it as a ‘lifestyle’?)</p>
<p>Which is it?</p>
<p>‘Fear of people finding out’ about what: gay orientation?</p>
<p>(P.S. The part about leaving the past behind & entering on a new journey I totally relate to & understand.)</p>
<p>epiphany: I think people play around on facebook with pretty much <em>all</em> the choices and variations with absolutely no link to reality. It would be common, for example, for a girl to list her openly gay male friend as her “husband”. Sounds so cool. And so much easier to joke about it than to simply say that you are single and looking.</p>
<p>i think you are analyzing too much. many people do it as like a joke (usually an inside joke). like someone might put that they are engaged to their best friend yet may not be questioning their sexuality. i have a friend who lists they are married to a sports player but he is not gay or questioning. a gay person could do it as well as a straight person. does not really matter much. </p>
<p>for example one me and a friend were on the phone and decided to change out status messages to say “Name is watching lesbian porn with (name of friend on phone)”. that does not really mean we were actually doing it. with facebook it is usually better to just ask the person if it is true or not.</p>
<p>i hope that made sense</p>
<p>It’s generally pretty obvious on facebook…if it’s two hawties with long hair that don’t list softball as their top interest, then they are probably just joking.</p>
<p>Part of this <em>does</em> make sense. For example, I myself, when registering closeness with, fondness for, someone – or even admiration of someone I do not know personally – will sometimes joke & say, “I’m practically married to him,” or “I might as well marry him.” etc. I suppose I could also say that about a female, too (maybe I have), but in that case people know that both of us are straight, so it’s clear that it’s a metaphor.</p>
<p>These cases are more ambiguous.</p>
<p>With FB, Why deliberately confuse people? (i.e., make it appear that you are really making sexual orientation allusions, particularly when accompanied by text that suggests). And if people are Coming Out on FB, I don’t know that that’s the best vehicle.</p>
<p>You’re right, Janet, I’m too analytical. :)</p>
<p>People do come out on facebook, it’s not by saying ‘married’ or ‘engaged’ though. Those are either used for the real purpose(actual marriages or engagements), or for girls and their good friends. ‘It’s complicated with’ is the most likely option for ‘coming out’, but still far from a lock or even a very strong allusion.</p>
<p>And as far as pro/anti-gay in the past, I don’t know what to say. I have certainly used the terms ■■■■■■ or gay negatively, and have let ‘hate speech’ occur in front of me without reaction. At the same time I have been rather outspoken in my school about the gay marriage rights and the like. When seeing bigotry I am more likely to point out absurdities in the statements used, rather than outright rejection. This is intended to cause people to think rather than just flat out reject my ideas. If I were to be asked ‘Have I been a consistent active supporter of gay life and culture?’ The answer would be no, I have said things that I would surely find highly insensitive if I were of a different orientatoin. At the same time I feel that I have been rather steadfast in my reference to the unfairness and ridiculousness of unequal rights being provided to gays, and the need to change that. Even now I would not say that I am perfect in my using the proper language or that I fight as much as I should when I see bigotry. I hope to change this.</p>
<p>At the same time, when I read in this thread that children had their schools changed due to the lack of a progressive atmosphere - I find that quite out of line. Unless abuse caused this, a child should be taught the correct point of view, and be willing to support it even when others ridicule this opinion. And those supporters of change are exactly the types needed in these ‘backwards’ schools. If we had more leaders expressing how unacceptable gay bashing truly is, we could help change our country and improve the lives of those who actually have to face this unfairness.</p>
<p>Epiphany, you crack me up.
I’m going to give you a longer answer than you need. Fake relationship statuses are not to confuse people; they’re for fun, and they’re almost always between two girls or a girl and a gay male friend. Very few facebook users are actually engaged or married, and since people use facebook predominantly to network with their real life friends, confusion is rarely a problem. On facebook I am listed as engaged to my best, female friend. Everyone knows we’re not actually engaged, and only people who don’t know us both would think we’re in a relationship. I identify as a lesbian, but I do not have my sexual orientation listed on facebook (I’m not a fan of labeling myself in such a public forum), though the vast majority of my facebook friends know. My best friend, the one I’m “engaged” to, is straight, and right under where it says she’s “Engaged to ---------” it says that she is “Interested in Men,” so people won’t believe that she is really engaged to a woman. </p>
<p>Onto the subject of why people list false relationship statuses with their friends… Facebook likes you to list whether you’re single or in a relationship (and if so, whether you’re engaged, married, etc.), and that’s not something many people necessarily want announced to the world. If you’re single, it will ask you whether you’re interested in dating, a relationship, etc, which is sort of an embarrassing question (i.e. “I’m single and unhappy about it”). If you’re in a relationship, it may be something you want kept quiet or you may not want to go through the process of having to change your relationship status if you break up. Not having a truthful relationship status (i.e. having a fun, fake one) also eases the way in the beginning of a relationship when you may not want those kinds of labels. You can of course choose not to answer any questions about your relationship status or orientation, which comes across as sort of mysterious. Having a fake relationship usually comes across as kind of fun. The purpose is not to trick people or fake them out. It’s usually easy to tell a fake relationship status from a real one, and it is a way to help keep you from announcing your relationship status to everyone you know.</p>
<p>
Coming out to parents and close friends should of course be done in person. But coming out is a lifelong process, and facebook makes that process much easier. When I started college, my facebook said that I was “Interested in Women,” which really made coming out at college a breeze. I avoided the sometimes awkward assumption that I’m straight, got to network with other gay and lesbian students, and was able to be fully out from day one of college.</p>
<p>LOL, I get your point, corranged. I guess it’s just a different perspective. Perhaps the real question for me is, Why in the world would a (mostly) adolescent social networking site ask about engagement in the first place?<br>
While it’s possible, most people today do not get engaged until after college, and in any case it’s no longer true that straight females, for example, attend college “in order to” get “their MRS. degree.” (Used to be true, a couple of generations ago.)</p>
<p>I didn’t think the purpose of FB was to be a dating site, or announce an interest in dating one or another gender. It’s not that it couldn’t be announced by the poster as an option under “Profile”. (Favorite things: guys, particular authors, particular foods & pastimes, etc.) So I support the elusive responses (& would probably do the same!). I don’t know that I’d call that evasion “fun,” particularly after you see it a few times, but whatever. (I’d probably have responded at that age with something like “Not saying,” or “wouldn’t you like to know?” or just, “?” Because there certainly have been stalkers on MySpace, I can see the wisdom in being noncommital.</p>
<p>I never noticed I was heterosexist or homophobic until I started uncovering some of the deep roots of those very feelings. This past semester I made a marked effort to get rid of the homophobic and heterosexist parts of myself and have found it surprisingly easy to do.</p>
<p>If you’re interested, wikipedia has a great “LGBT portal” that has a very complete history of homophobia. You can also google “history of homophobia” and I think the first or second option is very complete. Also, glsen.org, pflag.org, and hrc.org talk extensively about LGBTQ issues and how to work with homophobia and heterosexism in day-to-day dealings. If you’re looking for DVDs, The Laramie Project is a great one about a violent hate crime against Matthew Shepard in Wyoming with many reflections about ending homophobia. Boys Don’t Cry is another great movie about Brandon Teena, a transgender male (meaning he was born female but identifies as a guy) and the brutal hate crime committed against him. For the Bible Tells Me So is about the Christian Church’s take on homosexuality at the current moment and highlights a lot of homophobia that originated in decades past. If you’re looking for more personal/psychological roots to homophobia and heterosexism, Scared Straight by Dr. Minor is an excellent resource that will really cause you to question the roots of your beliefs.</p>
<p>All are available at a big library or a university library. I’d HIGHLY recommend everything I just suggested if you want to learn a lot about homophobia, heterosexism, and current issues facing the LGBTQ community.</p>
<p>(In case you’re wondering, I recently finished a massive project for my leadership class about challenging homophobia and heterosexism through education aimed at straight college kids and through anti-bullying advocacy in all levels of school)</p>
<p>Oh, and to those parents that are looking for the current (heterosexual female) student perspective: feel free to ask away!</p>
<p>kristin is appropriately trying to get us all back on topic, whereas I’ve been fascinated by the FB “aside.” Btw, I do see fun things on FB & see some advantages in it. But to me, the only real difference between a FB page & a really creative webpage (with navigation & communication options) is the business about selective levels of access, which would be harder to do with a standard webpage, I guess.</p>
<p>And since there are ‘networks’ (groups) on a FB page, there’s no reason there couldn’t also be a gay/friends of gays FB group in the region of the person profiled. (And maybe there are already such publicized groups on the pages of particular people.)</p>
<p>^^
I believe you have now officially analyzed Facebook more than any other human being in existence. Congratulations! :)</p>
<p>Thank you
<em>holds sides laughing</em></p>
<p>The use of acknowledging one’s sexual orientation on FB is not only to come out more easily but also to find other gay people throughout campus and elsewhere. After being on FB for a while, you develop an instinct for detecting who’s joking about it (you look at the groups they’re part of, their pics, biographical details and so forth).</p>