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I know, Ari, but there aren’t many dead bunny websites to post at so I have to satisfy myself with this.</p>
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Gee, I was writing about a poster under the ID “viewpoint”. Did you forget to log in under your alter-ego before posting this?</p>
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<p>:D</p>
<p>Okay, you got a laugh for that one.</p>
<p>If you are in the club, you are allowed to criticize it. If you’re not, you can’t. The reason you can’t is that because the criticism is automatically perceived as envy. Maybe the permission to criticize is worth $200,000.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if this is the dumbest thread ever, Tsdad, but it’s sure becoming the meanest. Some kind, thoughtful people who have been here a long time are being deliberately misread, and treated pretty badly. YOu’d think people would know each other better, by now. But it’s easier to interpret people in the worst way possible, I guess.</p>
<p>I would like to say that I appreciate hearing the different points of view presented in this thread. As public U graduates, H and I chose to send our older son to an Ivy. As I’ve said before, I don’t think that his degree will mean that he is any brighter than us, but I do think it will open some doors for him.</p>
<p>Alumother, I was a nerd too. Brown was great-- don’t get me wrong, and I am grateful every single day for the time I spent there. However, Ive known nerdy kids who ended up at Connecticut College and Xavier and VMI and U Mass and many of them end up blossoming at college as well. Funny how that works…</p>
<p>I agree, sjomom. I dont’t think anyone here has said that anyone is brighter by virtue of going to a particular college, but it sure has been a big hoot for people to read that into posts.</p>
<p>Also for the record, I keep saying that I know exactly what they mean because I had the same experience at a public school, and I also had a really bad experience at a third rate LAC, with a lacadaisical, uninterested student body. No one here, i think, ever said this (being surrounded by really intense, academically challenging students) is a HYPS only experience, but to say that all college experiences are equally intense everywhere is just unwarranted–borders on silly.</p>
<p>garland, thanks. </p>
<p>blossom, Most kids more or less ‘come into their own’ in college. Agreed. Just getting out on one’s own in a new place with 5000 kids your same age is pretty darn fun & exciting; I would surely have found many people and things to love in different college settings. However, unlike you, I credit specific hard-to-duplicate things about Brown (particularly the curriculum) for enhancing my experience and for resulting in lifelong advantages. </p>
<p>dstark, by noting that the leads to my series of menial jobs came from friends, I was not trying to imply anything particularly positive about Brown nor negative about anywhere else. Obviously if I went to Wisconsin I would have had Wisconsin friends introducing me around. (And of course, as noted by many on this thread, to get a good job in Madison, or probably throughout the midwest, that connection would be <em>far</em> superior.) But can you consider that Ivy connections might provide a better boost to a kid looking for an artsy job in NYC?</p>
<p>Bottom line: people are having problem with Ivy grads talking about “advantages” because they feel this implies a there’s “disadvantage” to all other schools. I do think an elite school has advantages, because I have experienced them-- but I also think there are different and compelling advantages to be found in plenty of non-elite schools. And I think smart kids will use whatever advantages present themselves.</p>
<p>It is more useful, as a counterpoint, for posters to identify the unique advantages of some of the less-elite schools. For example, the way a state law school can have huge advantages in state politics, the way a specific design school opens a door to 7th avenue, the way being at a low-tier school was a shot in the arm for a kid who needed it, the way a huge merit scholarship meant special research, the way being the star in a department helped secure a great mentor.</p>
<p>Lets not, any of us, be too closed-minded to imagine the advantages of other kinds of school experiences.</p>
<p>Many kids from my high school went to Yale over the years. From what I’ve heard, most of them were working as cashiers, waitresses, etc., upon graduation, just like the author of the Atlanta Constitution article. Some from affluent families managed to attend grad schools and became academics, but the poorer kids, saddled with student loans didn’t want to spend another 10 years and more loans pursuing ph.d.'s in the humanities which might not get them minimum wage jobs. Some have managed to move up to the supervisory level at the WalMart’s and the like after 10+ years, but they had a long journey, needless to say.</p>
<p>I went to another of the Ivies, and actually found a job upon graduation (which didn’t last long); I worked in the NYC area and ran into a few of the people I went to school with. Everyone I met was working as a cashier or a waiter (one served me at a Chinese restaurant, he was an engineering major.)</p>
<p>Yes, some move onto investment banks, and the like; bur for every Ivy grad that gets a glam job, there are 50 others who work in the retail, food services, etc.</p>
<p>This is an absolute truth. My father is a Harvard Law graduate (not his first law degree, his specialization in Taxation). He had his undergraduate and first law degrees from BU. While at Harvard he came into contact with the ‘elite’ and was offered jobs at the elite law firms in town breaking at one, ultimately, the religious barriers of the times. He stayed with one firm for about 5 years, but being a token didn’t suit him and being low man on a totem pole suited him even less well. He left. I wish I could say he ‘never looked back’, but this is just not the case. Suffice it to say that what his brush with an elite institution mostly seemed to do was increase his personal sense of himself and his sense of ‘specialness’ to a degree that became, ultimately, his professional and financial downfall. I support him now, his mother supported him until her death. Net benefit of this experience + .25= a cup of coffee(those were the days.)</p>
<p>Fortunately, my siblings and I have learned from his lesson. Those of us who attended elite, not so elite and 2-year colleges have all done well professionally. We are in entirely different fields of endeavor and hence not comparable in key outcome measures. The one who attended a 2-year college was recently acknowledged for a very special achievement-- leading our first cousin to say, “Isn’t it amazing that it is you, and not your sister (the one who attended elites) who acheived this!”</p>
<p>But can you consider that Ivy connections might provide a better boost to a kid looking for an artsy job in NYC?</p>
<p>I think they might.</p>
<p>Used to be that many of the top grads from my high school moved onto the Ivies because of the prestige. They thought the Ivies would lead to high paying jobs. The average kids mostly attended the state schools.</p>
<p>Nowadays, from what I hear, few kids from my high school go onto the Ivies, after seeing the “best and brightest” fall from their grace and work at the retail/food services outlets. (meanwhile the state school grads are successful and have families, homes, etc.)</p>
<p>Please, no more BS. Will the real Ivy grads come forward and tell it like it is?</p>
<p>anitaw, thank you for sharing that story. How sad. I think this is what people fear may happen to those who attend the Ivies, and is the reason for the concerned warnings about snobbery. Certainly everyone needs to remember that pride goeth before a fall.</p>
<p>That said, however, the fact that I’m standing in a garage doesn’t make me a car. I want to believe that those individuals who are prone to an unrealistic self image would possess that whether they graduated from Harvard or Podunk U. Overabundance of self esteem defies a direct link to actual status and accomplishment. Remember the study which showed that prison inmates had higher self-esteem than the general population? In other words, self-esteem is not always tied to an objective reality, so I question whether Ivy grads are any more prone to this problem than the general population.</p>
<p>“But can you consider that Ivy connections might provide a better boost to a kid looking for an artsy job in NYC?”</p>
<p>Ivy connections might help, but I’d think that going to a well regarded art school might help even more particularly if the school was located in NY or a nearby city like Philly. I also imagine that one would be at an advantage if one had attended a NYC college noted for art. Presumably, that would help one get the connections to have internships and jobs during the school year that would open doors at graduation.</p>
<p>Can anyone think of any famous artists who were Ivy grads? I can think of musicians and actors, but no artists come to mind.</p>
<p>viewpoint: do you think that the phenomenon you’ve seen is tied to what previous posters have described about perceptions of Ivy grads in their region of the country? In some places it seems that an Ivy degree can brand you unfavorably.</p>
<p>realize that in some ways, it’s harder to find jobs as ivy grads because the general populaton have “ivy envy.” they only went to state schools, they are jealous that you went to Harvard. Plus, they figure you’d be snotty and won’t fit in with the local grads.</p>
<p>In most of the South, Ivy grads would be at disadvantage to the homeboys who went to local schools or Southern schools like Vandy, UT, A&M, etc.</p>
<p>I generally think it’s a mistake for most people to attend Ivies if they want to succeed in their lives.</p>
<p>Viewpoint says: “I generally think it’s a mistake for most people to attend Ivies if they want to succeed in their lives.”</p>
<p>I’ve noticed that’s really been a problem for our last few presidents.</p>
<p>dmd:</p>
<p>The Bush’ come from wealthy, blue-blood family. Both father and son were members of the exclusive Skull & Bones at Yale.</p>
<p>Clinton went to Yale for law school. Of course Yale Law is worth attending, no one questions that.</p>
<p>Presidents since WWII:</p>
<p>Truman --no college
Eisenhower-- West Point
Kennedy-- Harvard
Johnson-- Southwest Texas State (Texas State UniversitySan Marcos)
Nixon-- Whittier College
Ford-- UMichigan
Carter-- US Naval Academy
Reagan-- Eureka College
Bush-- Yale
Clinton-- Georgetown
Bush-- Yale
Clinton-- Wellesley</p>