<p>Simba, it is not the kids fault if their parents are out to lunch. Sure the job is hard and teachers will fail many times, but still, if teachers can find a way to connect with the kids, they can make an impact.</p>
<p>Otherwise, why not just throw the kids in a pot and eat them?</p>
<p>Regarding making a difference: </p>
<p>Viewpoint, & anyone interested in teachers connecting with disadvantaged students: You might really enjoy the film “Etre Avoir” (To Be and To Have), a documentary about a one-room schoolhouse in a village in rural France. It is a slow, lyrical, poignant look at the heart of the teacher-student relationship, the heart of education. (A huge component is building trust, and a substitute would be at a profound disadvantage on that front.) </p>
<p>Reading someone’s post a while back, I was reflecting on another advantage of leaving one’s own area for school. Whether attending an elite institution or another state’s state school, it is a broadening experience to be in a different region, experince a different culture, have fewer ‘back home’ people to rely on and to tether you to your HS self. </p>
<p>I grew up a stone’s throw from UC Berkeley. Both my parents went there (and loved it, and received superb educations-- my mom was even the valedictorian of her class.) It seemed about 30% of my HS graduating class headed to UCB or UCLA (those were the good ol’ days when a 3.0 = UC admission…) Well, Berkeley had ZERO appeal for me because it was so steeped in the familiar and I wanted the new. </p>
<p>Once you leave your state, most school tuitions (unless merit aid or NMS $ enters in) begin to approach a private school price.</p>
<p>The opportunity to go far from home is much more open to wealthier kids, who have the option of forgoing the less expensive tuition at their state school. Unless a kid qualifies for substantial need based grant aid, it is hard to give up in-state tuition.</p>
<p>"it is not the kids fault if their parents are out to lunch. Sure the job is hard and teachers will fail many times, but still, if teachers can find a way to connect with the kids, they can make an impact.</p>
<p>Otherwise, why not just throw the kids in a pot and eat them?"</p>
<p>dstrark, there is a huge distance between parents and teachers. It may be too late. Teachers get them when they are 4-5 or 6 year olds. Don’t you think the communities, churches and other URMs who have made it should shoulder part of the burden and step in before they start school?</p>
<p>I believe Hillary when she says,“It takes a village to raise a child”.</p>
<p>"
· Undergraduate enrollment of African-American men increased by 21%.
· Undergraduate enrollment of African-American women increased by 68%.
· Graduate enrollment of African-American men increased by 34%.
· Graduate enrollment of African-American women increased by 91%"</p>
<p>why for men it is so much lower than women? don’t tell me that girls have better teachers.</p>
<p>in our district we have an elementary school in an AA neighborhood who has seperated the sexes so as to use teaching techniques that work for each best. The girls do as well as any other schools in the district, the boys still struggle, but overall do better than other AA boys in teh district- however- no surprise this school is slated to be closed, despite that it has a relatively new building so that * another* program can be moved into it out of their building- so that * another* program can have * their* building :eyeroll:</p>
<p>“(especially those in California, New York, Michigan, Texas, and Florida) are known for ethnic and economic diversity.”</p>
<p>You sure? UCBerkeley for one, is more than 40% Asian these days and some majors are even more skewed. Not complaining just observing.</p>
<p>"
why for men it is so much lower than women? don’t tell me that girls have better teachers."</p>
<p>It’s the big mystery and it starts early. NYS breaks down test results and even if fourth grade African American boys are behind every other racial group in most schools.</p>
<p>SBmom: I agree that it can be a good thing to go to college in another region. As you point out, even with tuition assistance, travel and other costs can make this difficult.</p>
<p>Mathmom: UCBerkeley is a good example of a school with ethnic and economic diversity, but how many elite colleges are there like Berkeley? While most have ethnic diversity (after years of affirmative action), few elite colleges have economic diversity to equal that of a large public university.</p>
<p>" At top schools, it is easier to get 9-10% black population quota. For example at Harvard or Princeton that would mean about total 100-150 freshmen kids. They have applicant pool of 16,000+. "</p>
<p>It’s not easier for the top schools to get African American students. A disproportionately low # of such students take the kind of rigorous curriculum such colleges require and get the required board scores, and have the grades, not to mention the strong ECs. There are only several hundred African Americans in the country who score above 1400 or so on the SAT (v, m). A Washington Post article about 3 years ago gave figures. ONe also can find a chart showing the percentiles of each ethnic group for SAT I scores at various levels. The average v+M SAT scores for black students are about 800 total. </p>
<p>In addition, it can be very hard to convince many high achieving URMs to go to a place like an Ivy, which may be farther away from home than they’d prefer, and may also have a larger nonURM population than the type of environment they’d prefer to attend. In addition, the top URMs get lucrative merit scholarship offers, including from their home flagships. Those can lure the middle and upper income URMs away from places like Ivies that give only need-based aid.</p>
<p>I agree with Northstarmom that it may be more difficult for elite colleges to recruit URMs in light of the increasingly generous financial aid, grants, and scholarships offered by many public and private colleges.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>According to the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education</p>
<p>Princeton- 16,510 applicants, 116 blacks enrolled (9.4%) of the freshman class</p>
<p>Harvard 22,796 applicants 221 blacks accepted 153 blacks enrolled (9.3%)</p>
<p>Yale 19,451 applicants 1134 black applicants (5.83%) 122 enrolled (9.2%)</p>
<p>Columbia 18,125 applicants 1390 black applicants 114 blacks enrolled 8.5% </p>
<p>Dartmouth 12,756 applicants, 82 blacks (7.6%) enrolled (7.6%) of the class.</p>
<p>Penn 18,824 applicants 1229 black applicants (6.5%) 367 blacks admitted (~30%) 193 enrolled (7.6%) of the class</p>
<p>Brown 16,911 applicants 1089- black applicants (6.4%) 253 blacks admitted (23.23) 97 enrolled (6.6%) of the class.</p>
<p>Cornell 24,452 applicants 1126 (4.6%) black applicants 410 (36.4%) blacks admitted 175 (5.2%) enrolled</p>
<p>so where are you going with this?</p>
<p>Just stating the facts.</p>
<p>You made the comment that there were 16,000 applicants applying to Princeton. I would be willing ot bet $$ that a large number of them were not black but the over whelming # were either white or of asian descent.</p>
<p>I implied no such thing…it was meant to say that when the applicant pool is 16,000+, it is easy to find 100-150 black kids.</p>
<p>I have seen at my daughter school that it is more likely for blacks who are recently arrived in teh US to take advanced classes, than it is for AAs who have lived here for generations, even when their parents/grandparents have college degrees.</p>
<p>I have seen a difference in attitude in both the students and parents, and not sure if that is externally or internally driven- but I haven’t seen many schools that have clear successes with improving it.</p>
<p>You can overcome the prestige by your ability. Nobody thinks Newton is genius because he graduated Cambridge, but his works.</p>
<p>“why for men it is so much lower than women? don’t tell me that girls have better teachers.”</p>
<p>Women started from a much lower base.</p>
<p>“Both girls are white, private school students living in a highly represented state. If you were to take them in that context instead of as economically disadvantaged students, you might think that this kind of recruitment proved that Harvard was elitist, looking only for white, private school students.”</p>
<p>No, I would have thought they had chosen the easy way out, rather than developing strong commitments with GCs among populations which they have previously poorly served.</p>
<p>“Women started from a much lower base.”</p>
<p>I don’t think so. The information I have read suggest that currently there are more educated AA women than men. I have read it and even seen few incidences in which AA women have to marry down.</p>
<p>There are now. There weren’t then. (If you go back two generations, there were significant numbers of Black men who could benefit from the GI bill, and benefits offered post-Viet Nam. No longer the case.</p>
<p>These are worth taking a look at: </p>
<p>kirwaninstitute.org/multimedia/ presentations/BrownPresDisparityData.ppt</p>
<p>As you will see, college graduation rates and high school graduation rates have risen far faster among African-Americans than among whites in the past 40 years. High school dropout rates have decreased far faster.</p>
<p>What hasn’t happened is a significant change in African-American income or assets as a percentage of white income/assets.</p>
<p>After 74 pages, the consensus is that there are no tangible benefits to attending the Ivies. Some have suggested that the caliber of students is higher at the Ivies and thus you’re more motivated to learn.</p>
<p>Actually, I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Again, many students at Ivies skate by taking idiot-proof courses and majors, some spend most of their time drinking and partying. Al Gore and George Bush, both Ivy grads, didn’t do much studying at Harvard and Yale, respectively, because both were from wealthy families and did not need to work hard.</p>
<p>Thus, in some ways, the Ivies are not even the acdemically-conducive environments that some make them out to be. Yes, there are hard-working students; then there are some who collect gentlemen’s D’s on high-school level courses.</p>
<p><then there=“” are=“” some=“” who=“” collect=“” gentlemen’s=“” d’s=“” on=“” high-school=“” level=“” courses.=“”></then></p>
<p>Ha!</p>
<p>I think I read that you currently attend an Ivy? I’m curious about which one. While it may be possible to take a few easy courses (note: easy for Ivies is not easy for high school students), you certainly can’t do so in your major. I’m also curious at your Ivy grade policy. When I was at one (granted, before grade inflation), you had to maintain a C- overall average, B in the major, to stay. Of course, being on academic probation or even being expelled didn’t mean that a student couldn’t graduate, but that he probably wouldn’t graduate with his class. I know of one person who took a mandatory year off.</p>
<p>I’m surprised that you don’t find your education at an Ivy worth much.</p>