<p>Blossom,
I don’t know why you said that I was “arrogant” about Harvard.</p>
<p>If I didn’t know that U Chicago had a reading period, that certainly reflects
“ignorance” about Chicago, but not “arrogance.” Frankly, most college faculty members whom I’ve mentioned Harvard’s reading period to think it’s a stupid idea: They think that students should be expected to balance ECs/academics throughout the semester instead of being enabled to intensely do ECs throughout the semester and then catch up in a convenient period arranged by Harvard. </p>
<p>While I think Harvard’s reading period is a wonderful idea, I have respect for people who think otherwise. Some might call that “tolerance” and “acceptance” of other ideas, something we could use more of here.</p>
<p>DRj4,</p>
<p>I don’t know about top colleges in general, but Harvard students and graduates lean toward being liberal. In fact, probably conservative applicants are desired because they would add to the campus’ diversity of thought.</p>
<p>Marite wrote:
“An education is an end in itself; it is not a means towards a better paying job or friends in high places.
And that has been the whole point of my contributions to this thread. I do not seem to be in the majority, however.”</p>
<p>I don’t know what the majority is, but I’ll let ya know that my thoughts align with yours on this matter.</p>
<p>Could you repost the message where you explained that the “dull mediocrity” argument was a devil’s advocate one? I must have missed it. If so, I apologize.</p>
<p>“An education is an end in itself; it is not a means towards a better paying job or friends in high places.
And that has been the whole point of my contributions to this thread. I do not seem to be in the majority, however.”</p>
<p>I don’t know what the majority is, but I’ll let ya know that my thoughts align with yours on this matter."</p>
<p>I agree, Marite and SoozieVT. </p>
<p>At the same time, I wouldn’t go $40 k into debt to send my kid to Harvard – my alma mater-- for that education, wonderful though it is. I think that there would be other great ways for my kid to get a great education without my having to carry that much debt. No if cost were no issue and my kids were lucky enough to get into Harvard AND Harvard were a good fit for them, I’d have no prob paying for them to have that educational experience even if they eventually ended up in fields like carpentry. </p>
<p>If my goal in sending a kid to college were to guarantee that s/he would make big bucks afterward, I would be probably sending my kid to flagship state U in my state, and encouraging my kid to take full advantage of the contacts there .</p>
<p>My thoughts about education and how they align with the quote of Marite’s…applies to an education at ANY college, not just Ivies, or not just very selective schools. (by the way, I don’t understand the dichotomy on this thread with Ivies and “others”…I think there are many schools that are just as tops as Ivies) I think that education is “worth it” in and of itself, regardless of career or even no career. </p>
<p>I don’t think an Ivy education is necessarily a better education but simply there are schools for everyone that fit what they want in an educational experience. For instance, some want rigor/challenge, some want specific training in a career field, some want a particular “experience”, and so on.</p>
<p>"by the way, I don’t understand the dichotomy on this thread with Ivies and “others”…I think there are many schools that are just as tops as Ivies) "</p>
<p>I agree. I started the thread and also, I think, used the above phrase because I was trying to figure out the motivations of the many parents and students who post on CC and who are willing to spend any amount of money and go to huge debt for a diploma from any Ivy.</p>
<p>I literally have probably seen hundreds of posts from students wondering about chances to “Ivies.” I haven’t seen hundreds of posts from students or parents who want “top tier” colleges with the exception of the people who think “top tier” means Ivies plus perhaps S, MIT and possibly CalTech.</p>
<p>I’ve also seen many people posting who seem to think that they will be failures if they have to go to Wash U, Georgetown, Wake Forest, Chicago, any LAC (even top ones like Swat, Williams) or a public university, including places like Michigan, Virginia, and Berkeley.</p>
<p>I’m dying to know exactly what kind of success that many seem to think that HPYS will automatically confer? Being CEO of a top company? Being a multimillionaire? A US Senator? Professor at an Ivy? Are these the kind of goals that Ivy-aspiring students and their parents have?</p>
<p>There certainly are plenty of people who are doctors, lawyers, college profs, wealthy who never went to Ivies or similar schools. There also are plenty of Ivy grads who have similar lives in terms of income and renown as do plenty of people who graduated from lesser ranked colleges.</p>
<p>Northstarmom, I didn’t mean YOU meant “Ivies and everything else” and after all, your subject heading said “top colleges” not “Ivies.” My observations are similar in reading countless posts over the years that seem to have an “Ivy or bust mentality.” Some posters even have had posting names that allude to this. The idea of wanting to get into an IVY is not one I was familiar with before I came here and was different than my own kids’ thinking and in fact, they could not relate to posts by other students who seem to discuss the desire for “prestige.” My kids did prefer selective challenging schools but it was never “I want Ivy.” They are totally unaware of the rankings, as well. Like you, I have read posts on CC where students lament that they “only” got into schools like Georgetown, Middlebury, or UChicago. I want to say, “what???” Those are very selective schools that are a fabulous education. It seems the thinking for some is that it MUST be Ivy. I have seen kids here who are applying to all 8 Ivies which attests to that line of thinking. I can’t imagine that. My kids started with a list of college criteria and found schools that matched it. Their college list was a continuim from unpredictable odds reaches to likely admits, yet still selective and likable.</p>
<p>For me, the single biggest value of cc (other than the generally really nice and wildly intelligent people here) is that my definition of “top” colleges has expanded to include 15-25 LACs and 25-35 universities or thereabouts.</p>
<p>I agree that the reading period is ridiculous. I’ve had this conversation with H who went to Harvard in the 70’s…My womens college didn’t have one. We were expected to keep up with the semester’s work, not cram it all into a week or whatever. It seems as if the students are being babied.</p>
<p>My best pal from elementary school did the program at Harvard Business School that allows you to get your MBA in 16 months (no break). He did an informal survey of as many of his classmates as he could. When asked why they were going to HBS, the Harvard and Princeton graduates all said “Are you kidding? So that I can make 10X as much money when I get done with here?” The Yale grads gave answers such as “I’m interested in varied management strategies” “I want to find out a way for someone in my business sector to save the planet and make a profit” “I’m fascinated by finance”.
Hmm, comments?</p>
<p>What you described has nothing to do with the character of different Ivies, it has to do with the type of people who choose to go to business schools. As far as I can see, the draw of going to business schools (graduate or undergrad level) is becoming rich. People don’t choose such colleges to have a broad intellectual experience or to save the world: They choose such programs in order to make big bucks.</p>
<p>Harvard has the same thing (auditing period that is, I think, the first 2 weeks of class). I wish that all colleges were able to offer this. It really is nice that students get to check out classes and professors’ styles before having to be locked in.</p>
<p>Harvard also will allow students to do independent studies in anything they wish to as long as they can find a faculty member willing to teach it. In addition, if even just one student enrolls for a course, the course will be taught. This is different from what happens at many colleges in which classes will be cancelled if not enough students enroll. That can even happen to classes required for graduation.</p>
<p>A Harvard classmate of mine took an independent study in basketweaving. No joke! She was very serious about that subject and wanted to intensely study it.</p>
<p>She was premed and had a true passion about basketweaving. Afterward, she went to Harvard med school and became a family doctor and award-winning medical journalist.</p>
[quote=nedad]
I am 54 years old and my Yale degree STILL opens doors in every possible venue of my life, from volunteer work (where I am willing to lick stamps in a back room, but they drag me out to work with the bigwigs) to getting contracts for my business.<a href=“Post%20#1126”>/quote</a></p>
<p>But what you and others who talk about “opening doors” fail to realize is that my University of California education has opened all sorts of doors for me, and I am sure that this is true of most college graduates. Different doors, but doors none the less. Every college has its own alumni network, its own set of connections. My network is probably larger, which may very well outweigh the elite nature of yours. I am sure we don’t compete in the same line of work, but if we did, there would probably be just as many people throwing contracts my way because of our shared UC background or just the sense that I was more down-to-earth and trustworthy because of my public education, as people throwing work your way because they are impressed with your Ivy degree. Again - it would be different clients and contracts - you’d get the ones who were impressed by the prestige and I would get the ones who felt put off by it – but in the end our rate of success would depend more on our own capabilities than on the school we attended. </p>
<p>Also - I think you sell yourself sort with your anecdote about the volunteeer experience. My college dropout-out son has similar experiences - no sooner does he show up than they put him in charge. I think if you are smart & capable, it can be obvious, sometimes just from the nature of the comments & suggestions you make or the questions you ask along the way. You may think it is the degree, but it might just be your innate personal qualities that would have been there even if you graduated from Podunk U. I mean, its not as if the doors shut on Bill Gates the day he dropped out of Harvard.</p>
<p>“Originally Posted by nedad
I am 54 years old and my Yale degree STILL opens doors in every possible venue of my life, from volunteer work (where I am willing to lick stamps in a back room, but they drag me out to work with the bigwigs) to getting contracts for my business.”</p>
<p>Do you live in the NE or a big city where there are lots of Yale grads?</p>
<p>When I lived in D.C. and Detroit, I had the experience that you describe. When I lived in other areas of the country such as large and small cities in the South, I found that my Harvard degree plus my northern accent caused people to look at me askance. I’d have done better with a southern accent and a degree from a large in-state public university.</p>
<p>Northstarmom,
The examples I gave refute the idea that it is simply to get rich, in some cases. I was really asking why the difference among different Ivies.
And you don’t mean “getting rich”, do you?
Most people pursue an MBA because:
Hate their boss
Hate their job
Want to move up in their company, can’t without an MBA
Want to switch companies in the same sector
Want to switch sectors
Need it to land their dream job
Want to learn more about a certain aspect of business, whether to move up in their company, or run their family’s business
Their company is willing to pay for it
There’s no question that some of the above would produce an increase in salary, but that’s not the same as getting an MBA “to get rich”.</p>
<p>I think that people pay the big bucks to get a Harvard or Wharton MBA because they want to get rich. At many other schools, the MBA may simply be seen as the ticket to a better job, but not a ticket to wealth.</p>
<p>I believe Princeton also has a reading period. Opinions about this are mixed. On the one hand, it would be nice to have all exams and papers done by the end of term.; and that is true for both faculty and students On the other, the fact that there IS a reading period is factored into the expectations about the level of work by both faculty and students.</p>