The abbreviated APs this year wont be considered for credit by some colleges. So submit if you wish, but dont think they will count for much. Scores from prior years would be useful, I think.
"My sister teaches at a local public high school with ridiculous grade inflation to where a 4.0 is common. Yes, students taking the most rigorous courses would stand out, but most of them also have 4.0's."
Yes, hence the need for the SAT and ACT to provide some context and differentiation among students with similar GPAs. At my daughter’s high school, about 40% of the senior class had a 4.0. Grade inflation is real.
I also noticed a pattern for my two eldest children.
Kids with wealthy parents were accepted into schools where their stats were below average for that college.
Test optional will allow colleges to select more wealthy students using the cover of holistic admissions. Does anyone seriously doubt that at at time colleges are nervous over their finances, that ability to pay won’t become increasingly important in college admissions decisions?
"I would be curious if people think engineering hopefuls should really submit if they can. Seems like they should definitely self report AP scores if they are good."
Interesting. I’ve seen this said on other forums. It’s as if colleges reallyneed to see if a student is capable for a hard engineering major (and SAT/ACT/AP scores provide the proof), but for less rigorous (?) majors, it doesn’t matter.
@momofsenior1 – our school guidance counselors are not the best source of info for college advising, unfort., but I may ask anyway1
Uncharted territory, indeed!
@NearlyDone2024 40% have a 4.0?? Well, I suppose that will be on the school profile so AOs know? At our big public school, unweighted GPA for the top 10% (which is around 70 kids) goes down to a 3.84. Very, very few kids have all As.
And most top schools are need blind so we can argue all day if those schools are TRULY need blind but they, in theory, should not be looking for full pay students.
Yes, I don’t think 40% is typical at all – unless maybe at some pricey private schools?
My kids have attended a top public in our state. D18 had all As and was one of only 10 students in her school w/ a 4.0 by graduation – about 5% of the class. My S21 currently has all As and he’s in top 8% of class at end of Junior year. I suspect by end of senior it’ll also be about top 5% w/ all As. (No guarantee S will be one of them, lol – senioritis is for real, lol!)
Anyone who gives you a definitive answer about anything having to do with admissions for next year is making stuff up - well except for places that have some guaranteed admission policy for specific GPA and the like. Everything is up in the air. Everything. These colleges don’t even know if they are going to have classes on campus in the fall - well except for the places like the CSUs that have already formally committed to not having on campus classes. Trying to figure out your own way over/under/through/around some admissions system that you think might be out there will keep you mentally occupied, but that is about it. Back when your kid was in 8th grade no one could possibly have imagined that this kind of wrench could be thrown into the college admissions mechanism, but here we are. Love your kid. Expect a wild and unpredictable ride. There will be surprises. There will be gee-I-should-have-expected-that-no-surprise surprises too.
@happymomof1 – you’re right, it will be a wild ride and I like your advice not to over think it. He’s a good kid and it’ll work out wherever he lands.
I’m scheduled for a webinar today on the changing landscape at highly selective colleges. I’m sure this will be discussed.
I don’t know what to make of the new TO. IF ACT and SATs can be taken July and this fall, won’t schools know that kids applying TO just didn’t get the scores they need for those schools?
I understand that some kids take the tests many times in an attempt to bring up scores, but that practice favors those who can pay for multiple sittings anyway. In a way, it seems that by going TO, the schools are acknowledging that all the super scoring may not happen this year, and they may be trying to protect the full pay students?
@homerdog
I’ll clarify that 40%. It’s for weighted averages. Unweighted, students with a GPA between 93-100 would be about 15-20%. It’s still a lot of students. But many of these same 93-100 students have ACT scores above 31 and SAT scores above 1400 based upon a glance at Naviance. It’s a competitive high school.
@havenoidea – please share what you learn on this topic!
Yes, indeed, uncharted territory. I’m with @happymomof1 about this. We are all learning as we go along and as events unfold. I have some friends in college administrations and they are just as uncertain about how their schools are going to be working things.
As for Admissions, I think that the number and type of applications any given school gets is going to temper how they are treated. That’s always been the case to some degree but now we have some new wild cards in the deck.
I’m wondering if some colleges will require all test scores from students who have taken tests or if they leave it totally optional as to whether any are submitted. Or if they’ll ask outright if any tests taken on the apps.
Yes, @havenoidea , do share any new info.
I’m guessing part of why we haven’t heard from most schools how they are doing it is that the real answer is “we don’t know”. In a normal year TO schools probably know about how many apps they will get without scores. They are also TO by choice. This year, nobody knows what is going to happen with kids submitting scores and possibly applying to schools that would be out of reach in a normal year. Also quite a few of these schools are not really TO because they agree with it. They are doing it to not look bad and let their apps drop. It is a one time deal, and they will be moving back to depending on the tests for 2022’s. So their “institutional” heart isn’t really into it. This is just something to be endured until things get back to normal next year.
We have about 20% 4.0 weighted. I’m guessing less than 1% 4.0 UW. Maybe 1-2 kids a year out of 350. There are a couple of classes where it is really hard to get an A. And the kid who excels at AP Bio probably isn’t the same one who excels at AP Lit.
@dadof4kids – I agree with you and the others who pointed out many colleges are being ‘dragged’ into being TO this year. It’s also a good point they don’t know how many TO applications they will get so they can’t say how they will be treated
My guess is that colleges, esp. those who most recently went TO, will lean on GPA more than usual and will tend to accept students from HSs that they are familiar with and where they have a sense of what their GPA “means” in terms of students being successful at their college.
If I’m right, we may not see equity gains from this move to TO, even though that would be a good outcome, IMHO. Some places? Yes. But many places? Probably not.
I would like to know how many rising seniors have taken at least one test already, it seems we all might be underestimating how many students actually have a test.
For example, I am pretty sure Texas public high schools got in their in-school state administered SAT, correct? Maybe someone from Texas can confirm? If so, that’s probably at least 15% or so of all college bound US seniors right there.
Again, just spitballing a bit here, I see three distinct groups:
-Students who don’t have any ACT or SAT score
-Those who have do have at least one test score, but haven’t been able to sit as many times as they had planned
-Those with a strong score who are good to go
I definitely think we need to prioritize those in the first group and get them access to a test.
I might have said this on this thread already, but I know in Illinois, our HS testing coordinator is pretty confident that seniors will get the opportunity to sit for the SAT during a school day administration in the fall (illinois’ did not get in the state mandated sat administration in April). I hope that does happen.
I am not sure if posters on this thread are replying about test optional applications in general, pre COVID, or the situation specific to COVID.
The schools on the Fair Test list are test optional or deemphasize scores. Many are top schools. Most usually require scores for merit aid. https://www.fairtest.org/university/optional
During COVID the change toward not requiring scores is because of inequalities in access to testing, specifically for kids without cars who may have to risk public transportation. And of course the risks of the testing center itself.
This is an entirely different situation. I don’t think a school could legally limit applicants without test scores: it could be challenged in court based on inequity and also the Americans with Disabilities Act, since kids with disabilities cannot risk the tests.
Harvard, Yale, and 5 other Ivy League schools have dropped the requirement entirely. No count or limit. Northwestern, many many other schools and more will follow.
In this situation I don’t think there can be a cap, as I said, partly for legal reasons and also just because it would be wrong.
@Mwfan1921 It seems like a vast majority of TX kids stay in Texas and a large majority of those go to Texas public schools so that 15% of all students competing for spots in other colleges might not be that many overall. As for testing, I would say a lot of D21’s friends have taken a test but these kids are the top ten percent of the class and that’s likely a trend. The better the student, the more likely they’ve taken a test. I would also say that most of them are pretty happy with their scores. Too bad D21 isn’t one of them!
Not sure I can extrapolate much after that. But maybe we can assume that a decent number of kids applying to tippy tops (at least ones from prep schools and wealthier neighborhoods) will likely have some score and might very well have a score they like. S19 took his SAT in August of junior year with a LOT of his friends many of them used those scores. So I know, at least in our neck of the woods, juniors start early.
The kids I’m worried about here are the ones who want to go to the Big Ten schools that haven’t gone TO. They are good students but most of them didn’t take tests in fall of junior year. Some took the Dec ACT but just as a baseline and were waiting to take a second test thinking they had a ton of time.
Agree with all of this. Hoping UIUC goes TO, that’s the only Illinois public that hasn’t.
I just want to know how many students don’t have any test score at all, and get them prioritized.
@Mwfan1921 Yes, our TX school was able to administer the SAT in school the first week of March and they will be administering the test in October if the school is open.