What are your current thoughts on applying TO?

disagree with this - even the most respected want lower acceptance rates - that’s why the Chicago’s and WUSTL’s of the world send out app waivers to kids that expressed no interest - like my daughter. She would have applied, got rejected, and that’s what they want - so the rate stays very low.

I think they want to ensure they are picking the right kids - and with TO, they weren’t always - and that test is absolutely an indicator of who has the chops to hang.

We’ll never all agree on this - we all have our opinions.

Only the school’s action - if it works for them - matter

“Vanderbilt already went through its “transformation” under Gordon Gee (the WSJ and other publications reported on it extensively”

Can you elaborate on this “transformation” ? Was it a success?

The university in which I teach went test optional back in the early 2000s. It was first done on a provisional basis, and admissions kept track of every student’s GPA, and whether they were TO or submitted tests. After about five years, the university decided to become permanently T.O. → it turned out the T.O. students (who on average had higher high school GPAs than the test submitters) were completing college with higher average GPA’s in college than the test-submitters. At least for this one school, high school GPA was a greater predictor of college success than test scores.

Note that no attempt was made to add in “major” to this comparison, which would have made the data more useful (if, for instance, test submitters were ending up in majors with lower average GPAs).

Anyway, my university has been test optional ever since, and I noticed no change in my classrooms.

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William and Mary has reported the same. That test optional students were performing as well as students who submitted. They have decided to stay test optional. I know Wake has been test optional for quite a while.

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W&M reports that standardized test is very important and last year 62% of enrollees had one.

We don’t know the admission rates between the too (TO and non-TO) but I’d assume based on that they’d like to see it.

Wake reports a tad less than half. They only rank test scores considered - so two notches below W&M and it’s the lowest of anything that is counted.

Every school can do as they see fit.

I’m just noting there are studies, outside of even College Board, that show a causation.

And now you have schools adding back the requirement - my assumption is related.

But understandable everyone’s opinion is different. And each school can react differently.

Frankly, each school is in a different position financially. For the many colleges that aren’t uber rich and that are need aware, being test optional makes total sense - because for them it’s about ensuring they have big revenue coming in to stay healthy. That includes schools like WFU who awarded need aid to only 368 of 1384 first year enrollees.

In other words, for Wake - I’ll hypothesize that if you’re rich, it’s ok not to submit a test!!! It’s clearly a school for the wealthy.

That’d be another interesting study though - acceptance rate TO vs. submit - and incorporating a need profile.

It’s a business - i get it.

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