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<p>They might not get it, either…</p>
<p>Turbo, is it illegal to play Ultimate in Elbonia? ;)</p>
<p>That’s the type of attitude I was talking about. When people bring knifes, etc it is with the intent of harming someone. </p>
<p>Kirpans are mandatory for Sikhs to wear, so when a Sikh wears one it is because he/she is supposed to, they’re not taking it somewhere to harm someone. </p>
<p>Kirpans can be short, witha blade of 3-4 inches which can be dulled. Scissors and knifes in the cafeteria are longer</p>
<p>^^^I love it!!!<br>
Some posts on this thread have been so amusing while others, not so much.</p>
<p>Anyway I’m not trying to start a debate…just voicing my opinion</p>
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<p>What if someone, a non-Sikh, takes the knife? If you have a policy of no weapons in school, a reasonable policy, it gets complicated if you have to start making exceptions. So is the Sikh allowed to take it out during class? For the sake of argument, what if it was a gun instead of a knife? Should we make exceptions for that too? Maybe like dulling the knife, which you suggested, we could mandate that people don’t put bullets in their gun. However, looking at the knife, someone would have no idea how sharp it was. Similarly, looking at the gun, someone would have no idea if it was loaded.
People probably do not think Sikhs are planning to use the knife to attack someone; they probably think it’s just a bad policy to have. If someone is that devoted to their religion that they need to bring a knife to school, perhaps they should be going to a religious school. In light of the school violence that has happened intermittently over the past 10 years, perhaps a little sensitivity on rsingh’s part is warranted.</p>
<p>It is kept in a sheath, with a strap that goes around the shoulder. People usually keep it underneath the clothes, and people wear a “kamarkasa” around it, a cloth that Ora around the waist that covers it. </p>
<p>The only way to take it away, is to beat the person until he/she is unconscious and then to take their clothes off, untie the kamarkasa, then take it. </p>
<p>It is easier to take a school officers gun. Or get a pair of scissors</p>
<p>I made a mistake the way I worse my original post. There is no country on Earth that guarantees the freedoms of its people the way America does. I was referring to people’s attitudes towards this stuff. I don’t mean “uniform”…I mean like, unwilling to grant exemptions to the norm…idk</p>
<p>And it’s not a gun…its a knife. This slippery slope argument is illogical. And I don’t mean to argue with you, because my right to wear a Kirpan in schools, offices, etc., has been guaranteed time and time again in courts.</p>
<p>rsingh13 - I’m curious. Can you wear your Kirpan on an airplane? In any country? I’m really not asking this to debate, really just curious how it is delt with by both the airlines and the Sikh who must wear it.</p>
<p>I think the no tolerance policies often go too far. That is why we end up with kindergarteners getting suspended, Sikhs getting in trouble and all other sorts of people getting hassled while the trouble makers figure out loop holes.</p>
<p>But back to our original programing… I wish Americans could learn to bake bread like the French and I wish other countries would have public bathrooms easy to find. I was very happy to see a McDonalds in Paris.</p>
<p>In India, yes you can. And there has not been a single incident. Everywhere else, you could until 9/11. Sikhs therefore remove them before boarding the plane. </p>
<p>However, just because we remove it does not imply concordance. </p>
<p>@Onward what do you mean by Sikhs getting in trouble? There have been like 2-3 incidents involving a Kirpan. But people die every day from regular knife attacks. Honestly I don’t care whether you agree or not. Every single court case has upheld Sikhs right to wear it basically everywhere except planes.</p>
<p>Onward, Americans HAVE learned to make bread like the French…and the Italians…</p>
<p>My area is replete with great artisinal bakers. They make bread in a variety of styles, but one in particular–called Standard Baking–specializes in the French style. :)</p>
<p>rsingh, sorry, I didn’t mean they were getting in trouble, more that they were being hassled. Sorry, I’m watching a two year old and not doing my best here. I did not mean to imply that Sihks are troublemakers. It just seems like these rules are too inflexible and common sense is not always used. I am glad you posted as I am learning a lot about the Sikh culture. There are not many Sikhs were we live ( I actually can’t remember ever seeing any in our town) which makes it a poorer community for us.
Not a whole lot of diversity here.</p>
<p>Consolation, you just made me jealous. Nothing around here but bad imitations. :(</p>
<p>Im sorry too, I realized what you meant right after my post but I couldn’t edit. My mistake</p>
<p>Its a bit hilarious that we worry that we are viewed as ugly Americans when traveling overseas, when we frequently view each other as ugly tourists within our own country. I’ve been called a f***ing haole when I lived in Hawaii, listened to my neighbors complain about the summer tourists when I lived on Coronado, watched native Washingtonians almost have a stroke trying to navigate around tourists unfortunate enough to be using the Metro or standing on the wrong side of the escalator during rush hour, and grew up in a place where cars with Illinios license plates were referred to as FIBs. </p>
<p>It is perhaps a universal human attitude to dislike the people who visit your own little piece of paradise.</p>
<p>rsingh13,</p>
<p>I am sure you are sincere in your claims and I am sure you and your children are peace loving non-violent types, but unfortunately not every Sikh is. …and you would be disingenuous to claim otherwise.</p>
<p>The kirpan is a weapon, first and foremost. It’s use in the religion is as a weapon. It’s supposed be used by a Sikh to defend the defenseless. A grand and worthy intention, but some say the pathway to Hell is paved with good intentions. You can claim all day long that Sikhs don’t use it in violence, but a quick Google tells us all otherwise.</p>
<p>I’m sorry to say NO religion is pure. They all have their “crazy” sides. We should never use the same brush to paint them all, but nor should we allow them all to carry weapons into the relative safe havens our children attend… IMHO.</p>
<p>Don’t the pictures in these two links, as well as a ton of other links (go ahead and search for yourself), actually show Kirpans being used in acts of aggression? The news often calls them swords, but a kirpan ranges from 3 inches to 3 feet. These “swords” are kirpans.
[Video:</a> Sunday’s Violent Sikh Sword Attack In Queens: Gothamist](<a href=“http://gothamist.com/2011/04/26/video_sundays_sikh_sword_attack.php]Video:”>Video: Sunday's Violent Sikh Sword Attack In Queens - Gothamist)
[Vienna</a> clashes spark India riots - Europe - Al Jazeera English](<a href=“http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2009/05/20095259395645663.html]Vienna”>Vienna clashes spark India riots | News | Al Jazeera)</p>
<p>And remind me… Aren’t Sikhs responsible for the very first in-flight bombing of a 747. It was out of Montreal. They blew the crap out of that plane in mid-air, killing nearly three hundred Canadian men, women and children. </p>
<p>And this passage sits uneasy with me:
“Some Sikhs choose to learn the art of Gatka. This is a martial art devised by the Sikh Gurus that uses circular movements to effectively swing a kirpan.”
[Kirpan</a> - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.](<a href=“http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Kirpan]Kirpan”>Kirpan - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.)</p>
<p>Really?! Sikhs have a martial art based on something you say a Sikh would never use?! That’s interesting. Where do I sign up to learn how to use a crucifix in battle? How about learning how to throw the Star of David like a Japanese Shuriken? How comfortable would you be if those things were weapons? … and kids brought them to school where your children attend?</p>
<p>It’s easy to say you should be able to carry a knife… when you’re the only one carrying a knife. I’d be fine with my kid carrying a Bowie knife to High School… if he and his friends were the only ones able to do so.</p>
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<p>I have all kinds of Dilbert Elbonia related cartoons around my cubicle… I think Scott Adams really nailed it when he came up with the depiction. </p>
<p>For us hypenated Americans, Elbonia might as well be a real country. Just as Adams’ caricature is hard to believe, what my fellow Elbonians think of the USA and what the typical American thinks of my birth country are so off it’s not even close. </p>
<p>Many hypenated Americans idealize their birth country, and some demonize it. Taking a more measured approach is the key. I learned a lot about America by watching TV in the 70’s, and I fondly remember the few things I could not comprehend about America on my way from Houston to Cajun State by bus… </p>
<p>So I’m sitting next to this gorgeous young lady in US Army fatigues at midnight and we start up a conversation… Being an Army brat myself I was no stranger to the concept, but a volunteer army was new to me (we had conscription at the time). She patiently explained the system here… Then we passed an Albertson’s (24/7 superstore) and I was amazed that people bought nails and bread at 3:00 AM. Not so back home… She explained that, too. Plus, even back then, the cultural and ethnic / racial diversity compared to our solid 99% Elbonian, 1% Other demographic. No explanation there, South Louisiana is about as diverse as they get.</p>
<p>These were the primary differences, in my view at least, between the two countries. Fast forward 30 years and I think that at the personal level individuals have made great strides in learning from each other, but at the country level we have much to learn from and teach each other.</p>
<p>For extra credit I married a fellow Cajun State student from Asia who, interestingly enough, still thinks she’s living there :). Some people adapt, some don’t, and the Turbo kids enjoy all three cultures.</p>
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You’ll be happy to know I hired a Sikh once. I didn’t care at all about him wearing a turban and I don’t care about people’s religions unless they prevent them from doing the job somehow (and I’ve not run into that yet). I didn’t ever see a Kirpan on him but if I had I’m sure it would have been an interesting conversation since weapons aren’t permitted on my company’s property and the Kirpan seems to be a weapon unless it could be demonstrated to be constructed of something that isn’t really a weapon - like dull wood. </p>
<p>I don’t buy the 3.5" blade excuse - don’t forget that 9/11 happened through the use of box cutters - considerably less of a weapon than a 3.5" knife. I don’t want any Kirpans or any other similar knives on any flights I’m on regardless of the person’s religion. If nothing else it’d make it too easy for a terrorist to dress up as a Sikh and then use the weapon.</p>
<p>I’m not going to argue with you. And good for you hiring a Sikh. Also, if did have a kirpan and you fired him, he could have easily brought a lawsuit against you, a lawsuit which I’m pretty sure you would have lost, as it has already happened like 20 times</p>
<p>And yes it is a weapon. Never said it wasnt</p>
<p>Also, I dont want to hijack this thread or turn it into a debate, so this will be my last post here. </p>
<p>In closing, my right to wear a kirpan is protected by the law in the US, and I completely understand why you disagree with it. I’m just asking for you to understand why it is worn before you make up your mind. And think twice before you fire a Sikh for wearing a Kirpan. Might be the end of your business</p>