To muddy the water further, it also depends on the major/area of study.
I’d argue that yield is as significant as fit. A college that is picky in admissions but that few admits actually commit to shouldn’t be viewed as being more desirable than one that is less selective but yields a higher ratio of its admits. Perhaps the ratio (quotient) admit rate / yield would be better than admit rate alone. If anyone wants to produce a list based on that criterion, I’d love to see it. I’d bet there would be at least some reshuffling.
As a benchmark these are the most recent yield stats I could find for Ivies (class of 2021) source IVYWISE.
Georgetown and the like are all in the 45-55% ranges
Stanford, MIT around 75-80%
I would suggest any school with sub 5% acceptance and 75%+ yield (H,Y, M, S) stand alone top top tier.
Top tier sub 8%-9% acceptance rates 55%ish plus yield U Chicago, Columbia, Brown, Duke, and Penn with arguably Cornell, Vandy, Dartmouth right there but slightly below on both matrices.
Sure I have missed a few and in no way scientific or exact. A ton of great schools remain in the super elite category.
If you’re talking Computer Science, the Big 4 is Cal-Berkeley, Carnegie-Mellon, MIT and Stanford in no particular order. Then you have a group of about 12-15 that you could consider second tier: UDub, UIUC, GaTech, Harvard, Princeton, Cornell, UCLA, Maryland, Wisconsin, Purdue, Columbia, Michigan, UT, UPenn. Then a bunch of third tier, many of whom could easily be considered in the second tier, such as Northeastern, USC, UCSD, Northwestern, UMass-Amherst, etc.
@Nocreativity1 : Not certain, but Dartmouth’s most recent yield is closer to 60%–if I recall correctly.
Appologies Publisher not intended. Never in doubt as to Dartmouth’s top status is irrefutable. Limited data source as noted was IVYWISE and a year dated. In all candor all of these schools have jacked up yield by taking close to 50% of class ED.
Once again not meant to diminish Dartmouth or any other school in the least, and only intended as generalities.
Thank you, but I was not offended. This was discussed in a recent thread last week.
Re #14, if the criteria were shifted to those undergraduate colleges that
produce the most graduates who go on to highly-regarded law schools, then these colleges would be most represented on a proportional basis:
*Graduates similarly represented in highly-regarded MBA programs.
I’ve seen several of these threads and, while there seems to be a consensus that there are probably rough tiers, there is not agreement on which schools fall in which tiers.
Consequently there exists a consensus that there is no consensus.
Where’s the prestigiosity thread when we need it?
@Publisher Would the University of Florida make it into the tier 3 list? Because some people consider it very prestigious however I have heard some people saying it’s not that great of a university.
Did someone say “tiers”? :))
Here are mine – this is really a silly exercise, as these are all great schools (and the US boasts many more…) and you should choose your app list based on affordability and fit variables related to (namely) academics, social vibe, and location/size/environment.
Mine are based mainly on the perceived quality of undergrad academics/academic rep. I also use things like selectivity (stats and admit rate…), support/endowment, undergrad focus, and prestige to break ties… or else the tiers would each comprise about 25 schools.
- Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, Yale
- Caltech, Chicago, Columbia, Penn
- Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern
- Emory, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Rice, Vanderbilt, Washington U in St. Louis
- Carnegie Mellon, NYU, Southern Cal, Tufts
- Boston College, Boston U, Brandeis, Case Western, Lehigh, U of Rochester, Tulane, Wake Forest…
- Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVA
- UCSD, Georgia Tech, Illinois, North Carolina, Texas, Washington, Wisconsin
- UCD, UCI, UCSB, Florida, Indiana, Maryland, Minnesota, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue
- Alabama, Cal Poly, Colorado, Georgia, Iowa, UMass, Michigan State, NC State, Ole Miss, Rutgers, aTm, VA Tech…
Honestly, unless your state flagship(s) doesn’t offer what you want to study, or if you need to apply OOS for big auto merit scholarships, the majority of flagships are more than adequate to serve their states’ students’ needs. So perhaps nowhere is the frivolity of tiers more evident than when sorting the state flags into tiers… but you asked.
@tippy46: US News Best Colleges 2019 edition ranked The Top 30 Public National Universities:
Univ. of Florida
Coll. of Wm. & Mary
Univ. of Georgia
Univ. of Washington
Florida State Univ.
Univ. of Pittsburgh
US News places the University of Florida in a tie with Georgia Tech & ahead of several very prestigious schools such as UC-San Diego, Penn State, Univ. of Washington, Wm. & Mary, Wisconsin, etc.
With respect to the largely subjective & illusive concept of prestige, those in the know rank Florida highly.
I simply do not know enough about the Univ. of Florida in order to comment. Tough to get into. I suspect that the Univ. of Florida’s soaring popularity has placed UF in a position where it needs to add professors & facilities.
Some of the smartest people whom I know who are living in the Southeast US target UF as the top choice for their kids & none are Florida residents.
P.S. If you plan to live & work in Florida after college, then it would be hard to beat UF for alumni & career connections.
@tippy46: With respect to the Univ. of Florida and the concept of “prestige”, it depends upon the situation. For employment purposes, I am not sure how West Coast (California, Washington state) employers would react to a UF degree in a not in high demand major. Same for New York City & Boston firms.
If seeking a position outside of the Southern US immediately after graduation, my best guess is that it would be wise to research UF alumni at the targeted company in order to establish a connection who might be able one to get an interview.
But @Gator88NE or other UF grads would know much more on this topic than I do.
I disagree that you can rank tiers simply by “demand for the product.” This is just a fancy word for a popularity contest, and not valid for many people.
Just because you use numbers and words with multiple syllables does not make a better ranking. “There are lies, dam* lies, and statistics.”
Where for example, are many of the women’s colleges? One or two are there. Does Barnard or Wellesley offer a better education than, say, Smith or Bryn Mawr? It’s just silly to believe that. Especially when you consider that Haverford is on the list but Bryn Mawr isn’t – they’re almost the same school, sharing facilities, majors, etc. The only difference is that BMC is all women and Haverford isn’t.
Many schools that offer educations that are not mainstream will not be on the list because serving a niche interest area removes much of the “demand” for the school.
@tippy46: If you are a Florida resident & can get admitted into the school or major that most interests you, then the Univ. of Florida is worth fighting for as the cost of attendance is incredibly low. Graduating debt free with an undergraduate degree from a major state university is a blessing that enables one to pursue almost any avenue including graduate school.
@Dustyfeathers: Although this is not my thread, I would like to respond to your comment. I agree. With respect to prestige, Wellesley College, Barnard College, Mount Holyoke, Smith College & Bryn Mawr all have a bit of an Ivy League quality identity.
@Publisher partly it’s because they produce graduates who outpace others in their respective fields, often breaking boundaries 2) they are great feeder schools for Ph.D.s and other higher ed degrees (Bryn Mawr is in the top 15 of Ph.D. feeders) and 3) there is historic precedence for them being tied directly to Ivies – although now I notice that aspect has been downplayed Wikipedia etc. There used to be a chart there of the sister-brother affiliation. It’s been removed and lines in the narrative now simply describe the fact that this relationship exists historically. If I’m remembering correctly, the affiliations were something like –
Wellesley – MIT/ Harvard
Radcliffe – eaten up by Harvard as sister school
Barnard – Columbia
Bryn Mawr – UPenn or Princeton or both
Vassar – Yale
Mt. H and Smith might be Brown but I’m not sure.
@tippy46 UF is a GREAT place to go to school. I can tell you that MANY top students choose it over Ivys and other top public schools because of the price and amazing scholarships offered in the state of Florida. My daughter for example was accepted to Berkeley, Michigan and UVA all ranked higher on those lists… as well as UT business honors which is highly presitigious. She chose UF because as a NMF she got a full cost of attendance scholarship at a top 10 school. The president of UF came from Cornell and is EXCELENT as well. If you go hear him speak about his vision for the university you will know you are in good hands. He said several things he was concerned about going to a large school from a small private school he actually found were better at UF. They are adding 500 new faculty this year alone. Many of the students my daughter is friends with also got into many Ivys and chose UF. I can tell you there are endless leadership opportunities at UF, over 1000 organizations to join and my daughter has been very happy there. In the end, you have to choose what is best for you. But with UF this year extending the same great deal of this full ride scholarship, unheard of at a top 8 school, to all out of state NMFs, it’s rankings will only be going up. I know many qualified kids with higher grades and scores than you who did not get in who would be happy to have your spot!. I’d be excited that UF saw something in you and take the offer and run with it! But that is your choice. I will say this… some schools the hardest part is getting in… that is NOT the case with UF. If you go there be prepared to work hard!! It is not an easy school. Good luck!