<p>Do you see a distinction between “try your best” and “strive for greatness”? I can think of plenty of things where I might try my best (within reason), but I’m quite confident greatness is not in the cards. for example, I try my best to get consistent exercise, but it’s of no importance whatsoever that I become a world class or even really good athlete. Likewise, it’s really not important to “give my all” in plenty of things that I do. Good enough is often good enough.</p>
<p>So much is subjective.
Who is to say is the best vocalist in the Western Hemisphere- by what do you measure?
Howabout the best cook? What does best mean?
Fastest?
What about characteristics that won’t be measured?
They may be much more important than the ones that can.</p>
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<p>I fully agree, but I would think that when it is your passion you would strive for greatness, in which case you have to try your best. I am assuming, of course, that if it is an EC it is a passion. If it is not a passion, then why do it? For college apps? To be more interesting when talking to other people? That’s incredibly shallow in my view.</p>
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<p>The good ones always know if they are the best or not. They may or may not publicly acknowledge it, but deep inside they always know if they are the best or not.</p>
<p>“The good ones always know if they are the best or not. They may or may not publicly acknowledge it, but deep inside they always know if they are the best or not.”</p>
<p>good grief! In whose opinion are they “the best”? Their own? Their parents? Their teachers? The president of their country? The president of the The United nations? whose opinion are you talking about?
And how incredibly vain and Narcissistic for someone to even think that they are “the best” in the world. Who cares if they are? It won’t last for long…</p>
<p>IP</p>
<p>Many people pursue their passions, even though they may not be the best at it. You don’t have to be the best at something to have a passion for it. </p>
<p>For her college applications, my oldest DD wrote a moving essay on her passion of theater, even though she usually only got “bit parts”. The colleges must have liked reading it . . . as dd got into 12 out of 12 colleges including Duke, UCLA, UNC chapel hill, UCLA. Got offered merit scholarships for 8 of them – finally, deciding to attend Baylor where she got a full tuition scholarship.</p>
<p>I love to sing and to act – and did drama all through high school and got several awards. I am now an optometrist by profession but still love the theatre and Broadway, and am involved in my local community with children’s theatre and choral groups. Your passions can also be a lifelong interest . . and last long after college is over.</p>
<p>I don’t understand the point of this thread/argument. ECs are what they are. Some become careers or a passion, some become resume builders, and some build interests in other areas. It’s about having interests and pursuing them in one form or another (Very Faustian). </p>
<p>I started my S in Kindermusik at 18 mos, started him on piano lessons at 6, drum at 11. He played in some sport from the age of 4 on. I also signed him up for any and every free summer camp and after school program I could find. He got to play sports, participate in plays, and participate in an environmental hands-on type programs, etc. until he was old enough to work. He chose sports over individual music lessons in high school but continued in band & choir. He is decent at sports, decent at music and decent at academics (I will add that he has an LD) but he is an incredibly hard worker. He likes to be challenged. He likes adventure. He tries to learn new things and he is curious about the world.</p>
<p>Well, the question is what do EC’s mean for the rest of your life? Well, my S may have dropped his piano and drum lessons at the beginning of 9th grade but he didn’t lose his trained musical ear. Consequently, here is a kid who spent last year (his junior year of HS) abroad and discovered that he has an extraordinary ear for languages. He might not be as strong an intellectual as some of the other exchange students but he was mistaken as a native more often than not.</p>
<p>His well rounded, if not superstar, abilities in sports got him onto all the teams he tried out for during his exchange. In fact, his gym teacher overseas had him try out for the school’s table tennis team which he had only played once in his life. Getting onto school teams overseas helped him be integrated into a very different culture and helped him be accepted. It also got him several letters of recommendations and recognition awards while he was there.</p>
<p>This summer instead of working his usual summer jobs he is in a national forest as an SCA crew member. He chose to volunteer in another state instead of hanging out with friends, getting his driver’s license, and earning money. My kid does not need another EC on his CV for college but he understands the importance of the environment, not from school, but from a variety of youth programs and from ECs. </p>
<p>I guess my point is whether you do one EC or 50, whether you end up a prodigy or professional, or put aside one EC for another, or even just choose an EC to build up a resume; it or they all become important one way or another. </p>
<p>In my sons case, all the majors he wants to apply for in college are rooted in his ECs.</p>
<p>"I am assuming, of course, that if it is an EC it is a passion. If it is not a passion, then why do it? For college apps? "</p>
<p>Again, a strange assumption. Why can’t it be something that is interesting, enjoyable, fun but doesn’t rise to the level of passion for which you’ll forsake all to achieve greatness?</p>
<p>Who said that one’s “passions” spring fully formed at age 14 or 15 or so anyway?</p>
<p>And didn’t your kid ever have interests that changed? Otherwise, every kid’s “passions” would be dinosaurs or trucks or being an astronaut.</p>
<p>FWIW, my D didn’t get involved in her major EC till the start of her junior year. Even so, it was something that she enjoyed and learned a lot from, but it really never rose to passion. So what? It was interesting and fun. That’s all it needed to be. It so happened it was also intriguing to colleges She is planning to major in math or a particular science, but what if she takes an art history course and decides that’s what she wants to major in instead? Fine with me. </p>
<p>Because you were either raised this way or born this way, you seem to have a really hard time just understanding doing things for fun, instead of having all-consuming passions.</p>
<p>“The good ones always know if they are the best or not. They may or may not publicly acknowledge it, but deep inside they always know if they are the best or not.”</p>
<p>You might consider that not everyone spends the amount of time you do worrying about whether they are objectively “the best” in a given pursuit. I’m motivated to do a great job in my chosen field, and take pride in how my business partner and I do what we do, but I’m not motivated by “being the best” or beating out competitors for certain accounts. I get quiet satisfaction from a job well done.</p>
<p>*I don’t understand the point of this thread/argument. ECs are what they are. *
This thread isn’t like others where people toss ideas back and forth and maybe different sets argue their perspectives. It’s really about one particular poster, batting back to keep up the bickering.</p>
<p>In that respect, it’s ■■■■■■■■.</p>
<p>“The good ones always know if they are the best or not. They may or may not publicly acknowledge it, but deep inside they always know if they are the best or not.”</p>
<p>um- yeah.
These folks are distinguishable from narcissists, egomaniacs & those with similar delusions how?</p>
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My passion is basketball … the last 7 years I’ve probably been at well over 100 games live each year. At a kid I played all the time … in 8th grade I played on 5 teams simulataneously … and I STUNK. I’m 5’ 7/2", can’t jump, am not that quick, and can’t shoot … despite playing all the time I was not even good enough to make my high school’s varsity team. Despite the fact I did not achieve greatest (OK I did not achieve mediocraty) it still is my passion … which grew into my adult ECs as an administrar and coach of youth basketball (once coaching 3 teams at once). While I was and am a very mediocre player I am an excellent youth coach; there is nothing in my life where I have gotten anywhere near the same positive reinforcements for my efforts … which all grew out of following a passion I was not particularly good at.</p>
<p>The running joke about basketball coaches is that they are old point guards who couldn’t shoot … and there is some truth to the joke; a lot of coaches are people with passion but not tremendous playing talent but who love the game. Coaches are essentially teachers of a sport and to large degree their individual playing level is uncorrelated to their ability to coach … and I look at teachers and other coaches the same way … terrifc teachers (academic, musical, atheltic, etc) may or may not be “talented” in the area they teach but they 1) have an ability to teach and 2) bring passion and energy to the subject they are teaching/coaching. Getting a terrific teacher/coach is such a wonderful gift and I’m so thankful for those who follow their passions in this way and pass it on to the next generation.</p>
<p>IP, in another thread you raised a bunch of questions about volunteering … my kids experiece on ECs was built on the back of adults who volunteered. The soccer club for which they played has 500 or so players … and over 100 adults volunteer to coach each season … 10 or so volunteer to be on the board … and another 25 get paid small bucks to be refs. The vast majority of these have some history with the game and are passing along their experience/knowledge to a new generation … not all have a passion for soccer but I’d say most do … and in 10 years I can only think of 1 who was good enough to be a pro (lots were college players though). My kids in experiece with basketball, band, and theater is similar … and small army of parent volunteers in the background supporting the activity. </p>
<p>There is so much more to any activity beyong being the best performer … and thankfuly a large percentage of participants as kids continue on and create the infrastructure that enables future generations to be exposed, experience, and for some to become hooked!</p>
<p>IP: I’ve come to the conclusion that you’re on the wrong discussion board. You have no real interest in discussing college admissions-related issues with other parents of college-age children. What you need is to process issues of musical prodigy/greatness with other like-minded parents. Perhaps some of the parents of students of pre-college master teachers like Yoheved Kaplinsky or Wha Kyung Byun have their own chat boards? I would investigate that if I were you. I mean that sincerely. Around here few parents have as their principal goal pushing their children to achieve full potential as brilliant concert artists. It’s a niche market.</p>
<p>“terrifc teachers (academic, musical, atheltic, etc) may or may not be “talented” in the area they teach but they 1) have an ability to teach and 2) bring passion and energy to the subject they are teaching/coaching.” </p>
<p>Good point 3togo. </p>
<p>And some great players or performers aren’t such great teachers because they find it impossible to explain how they do what they do. </p>
<p>And upthread the OP referred to piano majors who graduated from St. Laurence or Oberlin and end up teaching as “mediocre.” I guess because they aren’t world class competition winners, but merely “teachers.” What a sad, insulting attitude.</p>
<p>^I agree. I also think if you’d like to read an interesting first person perspective on whether/how much to push/prod/encourage potential genius you read the book Searching For Bobby Fischer. Waitzkin’s son by the way, while no Bobby Fischer ultimately did become an international master and is by all accounts a nice normal guy.</p>
<p>wjb…your PM box is full.</p>
<p>I fully agree with your post. The continued posts on this thread by one poster have NOTHING whatsoever to do with college, or college admissions.</p>
<p>Time to trot out again a story I trot out from time to time:</p>
<p>One of my high school French teachers was a recent Harvard grad who, while majoring in French literature, had always spent a great deal of time on music, especially piano. He was a wonderful French teacher, and he also regularly served as an accompanyist to professional singers and other musicians giving recitals in our midwestern city (the ones who were not big enough names to be able to hire one accompanyist to travel with them). After a few years and a sad divorce, he listened to a couple of the artists who said he was more than good enough to make it as a classical musician in NYC, and he gave it a shot.</p>
<p>He never did quite support himself sustainably as a professional musician. But he was a wonderful guy who was smart and scrupulously honest, and he got along well with artists because really that’s what he was. First one, then more of his clients asked him to act as their manager, and in time he became an extremely successful manager, and ultimately CEO of a major management company.</p>
<p>Two lessons germane to this thread: (1) Teachers are not inherently mediocre. (2) Pursuing your EC in college and beyond is not necessarily a waste of your time.</p>
<p>“…Terrific teachers … may or may not be “talented” in the area they teach, but they 1) have an ability to teach, and 2) bring passion and energy to the subject they are teaching/coaching…”</p>
<p>Let me take that one step further. SOMETIMES the BEST teachers are the ones who struggled with the subject back when they were learning it. Sometimes those teachers are the ones who most understand the reasons their students “don’t get it”, or are confused, or aren’t progressing. They are the ones who can connect the dots, explain it in a different way, find an alternate route. Sometimes the teachers who are the most talented in the subject matter just can’t connect with a student who isn’t.</p>
<p>I was a lousy student of math. I barely made it through Algebra in high school. HOWEVER I was a wonderful teacher of elementary math, because I had a connection with those children who struggled to understand. Which is not to say that I would have ever had any business as a teacher setting foot in a higher level math class! But give me a child struggling to understand long division, and I could do wonders.</p>
<p>Your EC can support & sustain your career even if it only tangentially has anything to do with it.
We have also seen that people often have two or even three careers in their life & who can predict which one will prove to be defining?</p>
<p>I know so many people for whom this is true.
A Finn-american whose love for cross country skiing is just one thing that ties him to that country & possibly inspired him to found an international organization which funds research for a more egalitarian society.
A aeronautical engineer who has been a math professor but is also a professional musician which helps him stay balanced.
I know everyone on this thread can think of many more examples of how ECs add depth & meaning to our life, at whatever level we choose to embrace them.
:)</p>
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I’ll best most of us have never heard a piece of music composed by Nadia Boulanger–I’m pretty sure I never have. But you’ve definitely heard music composed by her composition students.</p>