What do you think about Illegals getting instate tuition?

Parent Cafe
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<p>“I do not agree with the Silicon Valley execs, and others, who are resentful that trained high-skilled workers might return to their countries of origin. One of these execs was on the radio the other day, bemoaning how unfair it was that “the other country gets to keep them after we train them.” (As part of a proposed immigration policy.) I say, Great.”</p>

<p>That’s right, we have taken advantage of other countries’ brain drains for so long, it’s great if we repay the debt.</p>

<p>But I think these countries only want the educated workers/immigrants back.</p>

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<p>possibly true, cm, but I think well-conceived immigration priorities (with calculations in mind) can afford to retain a small segment of low-skilled workers in addition to training & releasing a certain number of highly skilled ones. Up until now, I do not think there’s been any consciousness of the limits of absorption, by those who make such policies and allow laws to be broken. Visionary our leaders have not been. </p>

<p>Also, the SV execs were complaining that they were getting a good payroll deal with the current H1-B Visa program, and would not be able to continue to exploit --whoops, I mean employ–I knew it started with an “e” – the temporary <em>legal</em> immigrants here on special admission, if this program is modified.</p>

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<p>…speaking of what (other) countries want & don’t want, it’s astounding to me how we let Mexico push us around. I hear they’ll be “upset” if the level of undocumented salaries mailed from our country to theirs dwindles, due to stricter prosecution of illegals. And this should affect us how? Why are we a doormat for Vincente Fox or anyone else? How does he get away with setting our immigration policy for us?</p>

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<p>“And this should affect us how? Why are we a doormat for Vincente Fox or anyone else? How does he get away with setting our immigration policy for us?”</p>

<p>I don’t understand the politics of this and what Mexico is doing for us. Do they have some oil that we import?</p>

<p>“Also, the SV execs were complaining that they were getting a good payroll deal with the current H1-B Visa program, and would not be able to continue to exploit --whoops, I mean employ–I knew it started with an “e” – the temporary <em>legal</em> immigrants here on special admission, if this program is modified.”</p>

<p>And that is another problem for US college grads, which is that lower salaried, educated workers are imported and employed to the exclusion of American science and tech grads.</p>

<p>Question: Are there any presidential candidates that recognize these issues and speak to them?</p>

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<p>I have read most, but not all of this thread, so forgive me if I am repeating a story that yall have already heard. </p>

<p>Zoosermom, you said a few pages back that you would make it unattractive or uncomfortable for them to be here, and that would help make them go home. I just want to share a personal account that I think shows why this at least would partially not work.</p>

<p>I don’t know if anyone who has commented in this thread has ever been to one of the Mexican border towns, but I have been to Juarez 4 times on mission trips to build houses. Each time we work in a slum that holds 10,000 or more people who live in cardboard houses, with plastic sheeting and scrap metals for stability. To get to the specific slum I am talking about, which is just one of many, you have to drive 15-20 minutes through a open-air landfill. This landfill is full of every kind of trash. God only knows what is growing inside of those piles. As you are driving, in every direction all you see is trash, and in the distance are the homes of thousands of the saddest people you will ever meet. </p>

<p>Once you get inside the slum, the houses are really just cardboard and throwaway material, and wild animals roam the streets. Lots of the dogs hair is falling out, and you can tell by looking at them that they have all sorts of diseases. We were always warned to stay as far away as possible, and if we even brushed up against the dogs to immediately report it. </p>

<p>The last time I went, we worked for a young family. The adults were young, the wife 23 and the husband 22. He worked as a bicycle gum seller in Ciudad Juarez and made between 1 and 2 dollars American a day. They had 2 living children under 4, the newest child hasd died 2 weeks after birth about 6 mos. before we went down there. She had died from some kind of bug, combined with exposure to the elements. </p>

<p>In all truth, I cannot imagine any form of America being unattractive to any of the families, 4 in all, that I helped during my four trips. I would not be suprised if 1 or all of those families are in America today, and honestly I could not blame them. </p>

<p>I know that that is my emotions talking, but that poverty and sadness was so overwhelming it is hard to not let them guide me in some sense.
All I was trying to do with this post was shed light on why they came.</p>

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<p>Sarah, we do know why they came. Believe it or not, there are people as compassionate as you are. If you have read any of my posts, you will know that I’ve worked as a volunteer with illegal immigrants for over 20 years. Yes, your emotions were talking and while that is personally admirable, it’s no way to create public policy. Ultimately, the most compassionate thing would be to force/assist the governments of the home countries to provide for their own people in their own homes and cultures, rather than asking the American taxpayers to do so. You know, give a man a fish . . . We could all be compassionate about any number of things, but what happens when the money is gone? To everyone.</p>

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<p>I remember going to Mexico several decades ago and seeing the same level of poverty. Mexico has had all kinds of assistance from the US to try to fix its economy and raise the living standard, including NAFTA, but Mexican government officials and corporations have basically pocketed that money and the average person doesn’t see it. </p>

<p>Ever think about where all of that World Bank money is, and why, after all of those billions of dollars of loans and grants, (much of it from the American taxpayer), it is still so difficult to find clean drinking water in Africa?)</p>

<p>By the way, the dollar a day standard is widely touted in business as what they are aiming for, for workers all over the world to subsist on.</p>

<p>The problems are very widespread, on most continents, and in many countries, including our own.</p>

<p>zoosermom is right, we need a much larger solution than trying to absorb the entire world’s poor. This country just cannot afford it.</p>

<p>By the way, I never went back to Mexico after that trip many years ago, becuase I was so appalled about the poverty vs the resorts. Maybe start a tourism boycott until they change their infrastucture (I know people will say that that will hurt the workers.)</p>

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<p>Yes, as Colligialmom said, life for the “average” citizen at Ciudad Juarez versus resorts like Cancun is very different.</p>

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<p>

I ask you once again, zoos…<strong><em>PLEASE RUN FOR OFFICE!!!</em></strong> :D</p>

<p>~berurah</p>

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<p>So what presidential candidate comes close to zoosermom?</p>

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<p>^none!!! :(</p>

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<p>I got this letter this morning in an email, so I can’t vouch for the author’s validity. Supposedly it was written as a rebuttal letter to an editorial favoring amnesty for illegal immigrants that was printed in the Orange County Register, but it never got printed, so this woman’s husband is circulating it via email. Whether or not the facts of that are true, though, this article makes some excellent points. My own father’s parents were non-English speaking Russian immigrants who came through Ellis Island just prior to the Russian revolution. Some of their names (and spellings of names) were changed, and my very bright grandfather worked hard as a carpenter to support his five children so that they could go to school, learn English, get higher educations, and go on to become productive American citizens. My father served in WWII as a chaplain. As a child, he played “half ball” (they’d cut a ball in half because they didn’t want to chase it that far <em>lol</em>) in the streets of a poor Philly neighborhood. In other words, his story DID reflect the “old immigrant” stories referenced in this letter–to a T. It’s really hard to argue with the points this woman makes, IMHO.</p>

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<p>“The problems are very widespread, on most continents, and in many countries[…]we need a much larger solution than trying to absorb the entire world’s poor. This country just cannot afford it.”</p>

<p>It’s more than we just cannot afford it. (As I’m sure you meant),even if we could afford it monetarily, we cannot afford, space-wise, resource-wise, to absorb the masses of Third World needs & requests. Further, we would cease to be a First World refuge if we decided foolishly that the “solution” is to be the planet’s only residential (free) hotel. </p>

<p>So, sarah, I agree with the similar views just expressed because even in the short term, let alone the long term, Standing Room Only in the U.S. is not the compassionate solution for our south of the border neighbors; it is not visionary; it is not aggressive; and it is self-deceit on the part of the U.S. It is the temporary easy-way-out. (Never mind even what it would do to our own poor segments here.)</p>

<p>If we opened all our borders tomorrow we would not be able to accommodate the many suffering peoples of the world. No question, they exist near us as sarah has described, and in squalor. And they also exist in Thailand, in row tenements, and they exist in India, and in Brazil, and throughout Africa. From a moral perspective, those people are also just as deserving of our generosity and our space. </p>

<p>“…I cannot imagine any form of America being unattractive to any of the families, 4 in all, that I helped during my four trips. I would not be suprised if 1 or all of those families are in America today…”</p>

<p>Sarah, I am also aware of these conditions, & I applaud anyone who has contributed down there. My sister travels to Mexico often & has similarly informed me. Actually I would not be surprised if a smaller percentage were from that level of poverty, a larger percentage from a level just above that. (Rural or urban, but not living in cardboard boxes.) I say that only because poverty of that extreme sort is often so paralyzing psychologically that getting it together mentally & resource-wise to do whatever is needed to make the trip can be overwhelming. I’m sure there is a segment of that among our current immigrants, but I would question that it is 100%. (If it were a significant number, visitors to Mexico would see fewer & fewer cardboard “homes” every year, because of the money exported from the U.S.)</p>

<p>Now, if we had enforced & would enforce our borders, I can see how a small percentage of successful attempts would be seen as minor (and compassionate) in the larger scheme of things: Better a few helped out of poverty – however they got here – than zero. But the <em>rate</em> of uncontrolled border crossings has already compromised aspects of our standard of living, and at some point the light has to turn from green to yellow, if not red. Let it be now.</p>

<p>QUOTE:
“I know that that is my emotions talking, but that poverty and sadness was so overwhelming it is hard to not let them guide me in some sense.”</p>

<p>But the emotional response will not solve the problem you describe. And this is my objection to the message from those who rationalize illegal immigration: it is not solution-oriented; it is emotionally oriented.</p>

<p>QUOTE:
" I never went back to Mexico after that trip many years ago, becuase I was so appalled about the poverty vs the resorts." </p>

<p>^ Yes. I’ve never gotten this. I submit that anyone who claims to be truly compassionate about the plight of Mexicans in poverty should stop contributing to the corporate profits of those maintaining these resorts. When the resorts become charity operations, with 100% of the profit going to replace cardboard with homes of any sort, then I’ll be less appalled at these moral incongruities.</p>

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<p>“I’m sorry, that’s
not what being an American is all about I believe that the immigrants who
landed on Ellis Island in the early 1900’s deserve better than that for
all the toil, hard work and sacrifice in raising future generations to
create a land that has become a beacon for those legally searching for a better life. I think they would be appalled that they are being used as an
example by those waving foreign country flags.”</p>

<p>My family’s story is similar to Berurah’s, but…</p>

<p>Grandpa Klopman was Lithuanian-Jewish silk merchant. After WWI, he ended up in Turkey, somehow with a Turkish passport. Since he came to Ellis Island just after the "immigration reforms), he wasn’t allowed in - not because he was Lithuanian, not because he was Jewish, not because he was Turkish, but because he was “Oriental”. He spoke fluent French, so he went to Canada, changed the family name to “Albert” (“t” not pronounced), bought a watch with my initials on it, probably paid off a border agent, and came in illegally as a French-Canadian.</p>

<p>He came TO the U.S. legally, searching for a better life. He entered the U.S. “illegally”. He became a very productive member of society. He never spoke reasonable English (I’m told - I never met him). </p>

<p>Anyhow, the plural of anecdote is not evidence. I’m just thankful that the undcoumented are keeping my mother’s Social Security afloat. And I am especially thankful for the Romney/Giuliani “amnesty” that will ensure that can happen even longer.</p>

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<p>

Our family would have a great deal more to contribute to your grandmother if so many of our tax dollars weren’t being spent on entitlement programs for those who are here illegally. ;)</p>

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<p>Almost nothing. The entitlement programs are for CITIZENS. Citizens just like my father, who was critically wounded on the Normandy beaches.</p>

<p>My mother wouldn’t get even a single dime more if entitlement programs for CITIZENS were curtailed. Social Security is paid for by employees and employers into a separate fund. $8 billion a year in the case of undocumented workers, compounded.</p>

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<p>

If only…</p>

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<p>My former congressman actually asked me to run a couple of years ago but I think a serious candidate has to be, well, serious, and at this time in my life it’s all about my precious babies. Who’s closest to me? Hmmm. None. Which is why I’m not in love. I’m incensed that W has a gameplan for resurrecting this monstrosity.</p>

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<p>Mini, if this amnesty comes about, then citizenship for the amnestied will come into play just about the time SS is going to become insolvent.</p>

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<p>mini, public education and health care are entitlements. Doesn’t matter how officially they are listed as such. They are services, & expensive ones. Illegals do not pay enough into the system as a group to cover those services. The incomes of many of them would be non-filing incomes for many years after their arrival. There are not enough immigrants earning high enough incomes to pay down substantially the costs of free services to illegal immigrants as a whole.
How perverse that we would be willing to allow the importation of millions of undocumented workers, to pay for a poorly funded Soc. Security program for current legal citizens.</p>