What do you think about Illegals getting instate tuition?

Parent Cafe
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<p>We are wandering away from the intent of original post. I would be interested in hearing some positive, helpful suggestions for how to address the in state/out of state tuition cost for people who are not legal residents of a state. Perhaps the idea of having illegals serve our country to earn the right for an out of state tuition waiver (as many states offer to those who are in or who have served in the military, or are from military families) is a reasonable one. Thoughts?</p>

<p>** edit** take a look <a href=“HRC”>HRC;

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<p>I think that this is a clear cut issue…until you know a young person personally who is affected by it. </p>

<p>That’s the thing with this immigration issue - it’s about people, and sometimes policy or theory doesn’t translate well. </p>

<p>And, I have a problem with our legislators passing laws that punish the people (children/adults alike) but ignor the reason why they come here in the first place (the businesses that continue to hire them) - if they didn’t have jobs waiting for them, they wouldn’t come. Until those businesses are dealt with, they will continue to come - regardless of how many laws the legislators make. In the mean time, I’d rather have an educated engineer or nurse than another poor person who has to take from the system in order to make ends meet.</p>

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<p>Zoosermom–I don’t know about your kids, but mine lived where their parents chose to. College students who’ve been living in a state most of their lives didn’t “choose” to live there–but it is where they live. </p>

<p>So, asking the question again–what do you choose to do about them? Is sending them back (if you can) to a home they might not even remember, better than letting them get an education at the same price as their fellow graduation mates?</p>

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<p>Another angle to contemplate - what about someone who enters the country illegaly at the age of 17 or 18 and immediately wants to take advantage of taxpayer subsidized tuition at a CC or other state college? Should they be allowed I-S access just as much as the 2 year old brought here illegaly by his/her parents? If not, why not? If so, once word spreads, might we not have an influx of illegals from many countries flocking here to take advantage of the perk?</p>

<p>When thinking of illegals don’t just think of people from Latin American countries. Also consider illegals coming from China, SE Asia, Eastern Europe, and many other locales.</p>

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<p>In most states, the residency requirements are 2-3 years, so these students would not qualify–these are basically not the cases that are at issue.</p>

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<p>Absolutely true, ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad. I remember when illegal workers from Ireland were not uncommon. But now with the Irish tech revolution, Irish ex-pats are returning home.</p>

<p>But could we ever get the Mexican economy to provide enough jobs for its workers?</p>

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<p>There are some businesses (like the agricultural business) that need a lot of workers, more workers than the American economy is providing them. I remember a poster from WA state (was it emeraldkity?) commenting that millions of dollars of the XXX fruit crop were lost because there were not enough people to pick them.</p>

<p>These businesses are crying out for some workable way to bring people in legally to do the work. But the guest worker program is tied up with the whole super-charged immigration discussion…will anything ever pass?</p>

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But wouldn’t most of the arguments supporting illegals access to I-S on this thread apply to them (17-18 y/o) too? i.e. wouldn’t we rather have them be more highly educated instead of poor, etc.</p>

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I’m not sure ‘we’ (USA) could although all of the Maquiladora factories probably help somewhat. Having much of their workforce leave the country for jobs in the USA probably doesn’t help. I think they really need governmental and economic reform - not so easy. There’s still a lot of corruption, bureaucracy, and old business customs in Mexico that hinders the economy there.</p>

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During WWII there was guest worker program that brought in a lot of guest workers from Mexico. These people not only helped themselves but also contributed to the USA winning the war IMO. In the town near me were some ‘temporary’ housing units built for them that were finally torn down not that many years ago.</p>

<p>There’s a lot of opportunity for a viable guest worker program that would benefit both the USA and the people from other countries.</p>

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<p>So if your first act as a “resident” is to cross the border illegally or over stay your visa what other American laws are you going to find to be optional? As an American citizen can I safely opt out of obeying a few laws I find onerous or do I have to renounce my citizenship to get that privilege?</p>

<p>All I want is to be treated the same as a illegal alien with three fake social security cards working off the books and not paying taxes.</p>

<p>Tighten up the border. Stem the flow of illegals, drugs, and gang members. Then when you can show some results we can talk about what to do with the illegals already here. No “comprehensive” immigration bill until we have have comprehensive border security.</p>

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<p>This discussion primarily speaks only about Mexicans, however, it is well-known that many illegals are from other countries, and still come over the Mexican border. Not all are poor. Some could be a security risk. others have health problems or criminal records. There is such a benevolent approach to illegals, as if somehow they are all just poor Mexicans looking for jobs because their country somehow just can’t do it right (while their leader and factory owners make millions.) Is it really so great for the US to have completely unfettered illegal immigration? This guest worker/immigration bill will just make it more attractive for the next set of illegals to come here, with all the problems attached.</p>

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<p>Collegialmom,
I agree-- the issue is legal vs illegal immigration, not country of origin. The same day the article came out about the student at Ga Tech (who happens to be an illegal of Mexican descent) there were two articles in another local paper about “success” stories- one of an Iranian student and one of a Russian student, both of whom were brought to the US in their early HS years, speaking no English. They are legal aliens, overcame obstacles, and did very well. I personally know of many Russian immigrant families who came here (legally) with little or no money, but who have done very well, and whose kids are in college with in-state tuition waivers. I also know of illegals (some Mexican, some Asian, some Brazilian, some eastern European). Some are doing well, some are not. My ancestors came here from another country, though Ellis Island. Personally, I fullly support legal immigration. I do not support illegal behavior.</p>

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<p>I agree, it is incredible what the students from all over the world can do, with very little government aid. They also are most times just thrown into the school system without bilingual education, and the vast majority do very well. That is the type of LEGAL immigration that should be encouraged, not made more difficult while we are taking care of Mexico’s own economic problems. </p>

<p>Mexico has vast resources, they should be able to be independent of us, and not rely on the billions of dollars sent back from the US to sustain its economy. Then the US could more carefully control legal immigration.</p>

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<p>ok, what if your child has equal stats of an illegal here.
The University your son or d wants to attend accepts an illegal student because of the minority status over you…Same GPA, Same SAT and Same number of extracurriculars.<br>
And, just to see how they will react…lets say they BOTH went to the same texas H.s. and want to go to University of Texas. Since the school took the other student, your child has to attend a second choice school.</p>

<p>How would you react? Think honestly before you answer?</p>

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<p>Well Altmom I have seen first hand how rich white liberals react when a decision made to benefit minority students directly impacts their little princes and princesses and it ain’t pretty though it would thrill the Grand Kleagle.</p>

<p>My sons JHS had a very large immigrant population with over 30 languages spoken in the homes of students. It also had a significant number of upper middle class families. The wonderful mix every liberal dreams of. The principal was a Black man married to a hispanic woman and he spoke fluent Spanish. Beautiful. This could be a made for TV movie so far, but the principal made the “mistake” of using some discretionary money on a saturday academy instead of an additional higher level math resource. That was the end of him and the fairy tale. He got pressured so badly he actually cracked up.</p>

<p>Rich white liberals don’t burn crosses on your lawn or hide under sheets. They have whisper campaigns, lawyers, and politcal connections instead. They will use all of them if they think their children will actually have to foot the bill for all of the evil things America has done and of which they are the chief beneficiaries.</p>

<p>My wife was president of the PTA for a good chunk of this disgusting fiasco.</p>

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<p>Honestly, I would harbor no ill will to the student or the university…and that’s assuming the scenario would actually happen that way even though there’s really no such thing as “all things being equal.”</p>

<p>First, this concept of “illegal student” or “illegal people” is somewhat disingenuous and needlessly degrading. People are not illegal. I know this comes across like semantics but there are a couple things in this world that I take seriously and one of them is respect for fellow humans. And it’s one of those things that makes me chafe: referring to a person as illegal. I know it’s shorthand, but it’s a sinister shorthand. We don’t even refer to murderers as “illegal” for goodness sake.</p>

<p>So, let’s free ourselves of that shorthand and look at what that person is…someone who crossed the national border because they didn’t meet some criteria that Congress established as to who can come in, when, and under what conditions. It’s not that the person has violated the Texas law – the law of the state that funds the education. Texas schools define residency in terms that suit the state’s interests. The state has no control – and no say – regarding federal immigration. For all the state knows, Congress could open up the borders tomorrow. So if the person is a resident of Texas according to the state’s standards, that should control. Since when do the states, particularly Southern states and, among them, particularly Texas, roll over and demur to the wisdom of Congress and federal laws and – in this case – quotas?</p>

<p>We’re all illegal by the standard that’s being applied. How about the students who commit real crimes, like pirating music? Or driving under the influence or drinking underage? These are crimes of commission and reflect on the moral character of the people and yet we don’t think to refer to these students or applicants as illegal, do we? (Thankfully, no, we don’t.) But just as I’m not offended by a university preferring – for whatever reason they might have – some pot-smoking genius who doesn’t pay his parking tickets, I’m not going to be up in arms over the fact that some person who is otherwise exactly like my child (per your hypothetical) gets admitted to a state school because that person doesn’t happen to fall within a federal regulatory guideline that could very well change overnight as to whether they are within our national borders.</p>

<p>The otherwise identical person isn’t doing anything morally wrong. If that person’s father had an engineering degree, for instance, instead of a hardscrabble life with little or no education, the student would probably be here legally. That’s not a flaw in the person. It’s not an evil character trait. It’s no reason to be outraged at anyone other than the federal government for establishing rules that (presumably) make sense and then not enforcing them.</p>

<p>No, I’m not really outraged about a person like my son getting in. If anything’s going to rattle my cage over admission decisions, it’s the mp3-sharing, underage drinking, pot-smoking, wiseass who gets the offer that’s got me pis$ed off. </p>

<p>The fact that an otherwise fine person doesn’t fit within a floating federal quota just doesn’t rise to the level where I’m writing my state legislator to stop funding the state school system because that person got admitted and my kid didn’t. Honest, it just doesn’t offend me…certainly not as much as other truly illegal activities committed by bona fide U.S. citizens might.</p>

<p>(Now, if you want to make this a complaint about income tax evasion, I’m with you. But that’s a complaint that I would hardly confine to undocumented aliens. I’ll be right alongside anyone who wants to make it unlawful to give certain public benefits to tax evaders, regardless of their immigration or citizenship status. But for some inexplicable reason people who raise the issue of tax evasion seem to only want to complain about that regarding undocumented aliens, as though U.S. citizens are entitled to some special exemption from being part of that discussion.)</p>

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<p>OK I agree people cannot be illegal so lets be semantically correct. They are not illegal aliens they are criminal aliens.</p>

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<p>“Since when do the states, particularly Southern states and, among them, particularly Texas, roll over and demur to the wisdom of Congress and federal laws”</p>

<p>I think that has been ever since US Grant sent Sherman to Georgia to kickn a mud hole in John Bell Hood’s butt and stomp it dry, burn Atlanta, and show you redneck Texas crackers what happens to people who break federal law.</p>

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<p>D’yer:</p>

<p>So do you think the USA should have open borders and no immigration laws? Just wondering - I’m not trying to put words in your mouth.</p>

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<p>@ higherlead: “they are criminal aliens.” Frankly, that’s much better. Even “illegal aliens” isn’t as bad as calling someone “illegal.” But, honestly, in terms of the criminality of it all, I think mp3 pirating is a far greater character flaw than crossing a border without proper paperwork.</p>

<p>As to demurring to federal law, I don’t think that message got through loud and clear as you suggest until much later, if at all:</p>

<p><a href=“http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Society/freedom_rides/freedom_ride_jpegs/17_slide0019_image035.jpg[/url]”>http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Society/freedom_rides/freedom_ride_jpegs/17_slide0019_image035.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;