what does "full support" mean?

Athletic Recruits
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<p>As others have said, the LL is the gold standard of Ivy athletic admission. Without that, even a high AI kid is fighting it out in the regular pool of high-academic applicants. But there is an aspect of the LL that I think we tend to overlook. From the school’s perspective, the LL is a tool to allow them to compete for athletes against other schools that can give a decision much earlier than the Ivies can. In other words, Ivy League schools use the LL to take a recruit off the market. But in the absence of any recruiting interest from a competing school, the school doesn’t have much incentive to give that early indication of admission and issue the LL.</p>

<p>I had an email exchange with a parent who told me, " …the coach told (student) that absent information that
(student) was being recruited by another school that (ivy school) considered competitive, admissions might not be inclined to issue the LL. "
At first, I thought this might just be a case of a coach backing away from a recruit and blaming admissions, but the recruit in question was able to show competing interest from another school and has since received a LL.</p>

<p>So in OP’s case - could an athlete get “full support” without being issued a LL if there was no recruiting interest from a competitive school? In theory, I think that’s possible - but it’s probably a moot point since most athletes at the top of the game athletically and academically will have recruiting interest from several competing schools.</p>

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<p>Varska, the coach actually referenced this in his conversation with my S. When my S asked whether “full support” meant “likely letter,” the coach said two things. One, that likely letters are helpful when an athlete is nervous. And two, that likely letters are used as a tool to get an athlete to commit when there is a competing school. He concluded by saying that it was mostly an administrative tool used by admissions.</p>

<p>Because my S is only looking at NESCAC and Ivy, that bit of info did not jump out at me. But yes, if he were looking at, say, Wisconsin or Duke or Stanford, I think the athlete would really need to have a piece of paper earlier than later.</p>

<p>I have a follow up question. Has anyone ever NOT been approved by admissions and then tried to apply elsewhere SCEA? or ED? At this point, wouldn’t you have to wait until December in order to receive the formal reply and then apply elsewhere RD? You can’t withdraw your application after the unsuccessful adcom session, when the coach tells you it didn’t go well…or can you? In order to take the offer of a competing Ivy, for example?</p>

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<p>First, please keep the board posted how this turns out good or bad,
so other potential recruits from younger grades can learn as us…</p>

<p>Second, many good points here that were listed on the board.</p>

<p>a) Likely letters are used when other schools are competing for the same kid.
I find it a bit strange that your son is not getting more interest from the other IVYS.
Usually, if one IVY wants a kid, all the others do to.<br>
And beyond the IVY’s, other schools, D1’s want that kid too.
That was my experience.</p>

<p>So… Where is your son as an athlete?
Will your son get to play? That for me is the most key question beyond getting into the IVY.
It’s great to go to an IVY, but you don’t want him sitting on the bench.
No one gets better sitting on the bench.</p>

<p>b) Just thinking out loud - but your son’s AI is off the charts. Congrats btw!
Could it be that the coach feels he will get in on that alone?</p>

<p>And a different question, did your son have a pre-read done this summer?
If yes, did he get feedback?</p>

<p>c) My experience is that each coach at each IVY holds a different type of leverage based on their experience.
Is this a new coach? Can your son’s coach call the coach? I also feel that of the HYP group, Yale is the weakest about caring about their athletes, but probably the most stringent about grades.</p>

<p>d) You wrote - “They can’t promise that the recruit will be accepted, so they can’t promise a likely letter, but will only say what they can literally promise, which is to include the recruit on its roster when it sends the list to admissions. It sure would be more comforting if they just talked openly about the acceptance but I think I understand why some prefer to downplay the actual letter and instead focus on their end of the procedure.”</p>

<p><strong><em>This is very true. Some coaches are uncomfortable with promises as admission does admit.</em></strong></p>

<p>What I am confused about is what will be communicated to you after the outcome of the meeting?</p>

<p>You state, “The committee is meeting in two weeks.”
So, when 10/27? And you find out then if your son gets in?
Will they tell you yes or no? And then you have a week to apply elsewhere?
( So, your son needs to have his application filled out for school B).</p>

<p>Best of luck,
Charles</p>

24

<p>OP, If your son applied EA he can call admissions any time and ask to switch application to RD or cancel it - no need to wait until December decision. This will open possibilities to apply EA/ED elsewhere. If another Ivy coach is recruiting him - they can let him apply EA/ED even after the deadline or they can accept RD application, priority consider it and issue a LL. </p>

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<p>The llikely letter is the key to EA/ED. If a LL is sent out, then you can be confident as to your status. Should you not receive a LL in October, you would still have time to put in an early application at a different school. Thus, the LL is really more than just an administrative tool to ease your concern. Your son’s stats are very strong and it may be that the coach is fairly confident that he will be accepted without him having to use up a LL. But I would not be comfortable, as waiving the LL takes away your opportunity to put in other early applications, and leaves you without any reassurances.</p>

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<p>Thanks so much for all this help! I am very grateful.</p>

<p>I am so glad that it is ok to apply early to another school if he decides to withdraw his app to this one! I think I messed up on describing the timeline earlier, but it’s something similar. If the LL is not forthcoming, I would just like them to tell us because there are alternatives that will work out fine…so long as they tell us.</p>

<p>I will be really glad when this is all over. I can’t describe every single detail right now but when this is all over I will be more forthcoming so that I can perhaps save another family some time and worry.</p>

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<p>Good morning Hobbiton. I remember going through the same thing with my son last year. During his discussions with the Ivy coach who was recruiting him, I recall the coach using the phrase “full support.” He also seemed to kind of downplay the likely letter, saying that would come from admissions after they reviewed his applications but not saying when, To reassure my son ,who asked a few times about when he would receive his LL, the coach said things like, “I don’t foresee any problems with admissions.” " As I mentioned to you I am offering full support." In hindsight, I think the “full” is the crucial word here. </p>

<p>My son’s LL eventually came, but the wait was nerve wracking! (At one point the coach alluded to the fact that all his recruits were freaking out. I think coaches are used to it!) I am keeping my fingers crossed for your son. It looks good!!</p>

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<p>I would have your son ask the coach when the admissions committee intends to review his application. I’m fairly certain the priority recruits at HYP have had their applications reviewed by the first two weeks of October. If the coach can’t give you an answer, I would think he/she is taking a gamble that your athlete will make it through the old-fashioned way. At Yale, many athletes with incredible AIs (like your son) walk on the team every year, so I do believe the coach’s recommendation in these cases carries a great deal of weight. </p>

<p>Good luck, and please keep us posted!</p>

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<p>Thanks so much! I know my S is not a top level recruit because he was initially offered “the recommendation letter” and not “full support.” I think they must have had some shuffling and musical chairs as the top recruits decided which school to choose, leaving openings here and there for the next level, which apparently included my kid. The coach mentioned two specific adcom meeting dates and assumed my S would do the slightly later date because of the time crunch to get everything together.</p>

<p>carolinab, your son’s experience sounds almost exactly like what we have encountered. There is almost an indifference to the LL, as if it’s a done deal and the coach has moved on to other things. But the athlete’s perspective, obviously, is totally different when those days are ticking by and other opportunities are disappearing.</p>

<p>I will keep everyone posted!</p>

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<p>OP, a possible scenario is that the coach does not know at this point if he has vacant LLs available or not. He probably has done some LLs offers but still has no replies from recruits. This should be will be sorted out next week or so. If he runs out of LLs your son will not go in front of the athletic committee but will be put into general EA pool. He still may be accepted based on his outstanding academic qualifications and coach’s “full support”.
So if your son does not get a LL this month he will have to decide if he should wait until the middle of December or cancel application and move on. We wish you good luck!</p>

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<p>Thank you everyone for the well wishes! CCDD14, it did occur to me that maybe it was almost a “rolling admissions” kind of thing with the LL…that they issue them until the coach’s allotment runs out. But yes, I think my S still has a chance at admission, and if this is what happens, then it is fine so long as they tell him that he has been put into the regular pool.</p>

<p>There is a certain amount of risk that we just have to accept, no matter what route he chooses. I’m okay with this risk, and while it would be distressing to NOT get accepted after all of this, I know my S is really, really okay with his other choices. This was a wild card all along and he never thought he would even be in this position. If everything goes wrong and he ends up at one of the other schools, he will probably be at what was his first or second choice as recently as last week! That’s not exactly a disaster. And actually, there is a weird silver lining, which is that if this does NOT work out, I am going to come right back to this board and tell all of you all about it! LOL! And that way some other recruit in the future will learn something about the process and how best to handle it.</p>

32

<p>It has been a really useful forum and thread. just for reference, my son is a good athlete probably not a D1 level; but an exceptional student with superhigh AI, top 5% in class, and tonnes of leadership. Summarizing my understanding as well as some questions -
IVY - Only “likey letter” is the surest form of confirmation.
question - is there anything other form of support that an ivy would offer - like a recommendation ? If yes, do they have only a limited quota on that - as is probably the case with LL. I see the coaches debating support to my son - since he could [in their words] be probably accepted on his own merit.</p>

<p>D3 - NESCAC/PAC/NEFC/UAA - I understand they dont have LLs. The coaches talk of supporting the application but could not figure if they have slots assigned. Is that all they can do - recommend, maybe with someone in the admissions committee ? do they have quota too on how many slots they have ? Trying to figure again whether they dont want to “spend” a slot on someone who might be able to get through on his own merit. </p>

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<p>My understanding from the several nescac coaches we dealt with is that they will provide a slot for an athlete whom they want, regardless of stats. With acceptance rates below 15% and many high stats kids getting turned down, it seems only right. Why would a strong studet/athlete use their one ED app without a promise? The one exception was the Tufts coach, who said she had unlimited spots for athletes with academic stats in the mid 50% or; greater.</p>

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<p>I think each of the nescac schools are different, at least with us. We have yet to find “unlimited spots” - best number we have heard tossed around is 7-8 in any year. Best we have heard is 3 more or less super supports or something like that, and even those seem to have to be within the 50% range - a student too far below the academic bands that have been discussed here is just not getting in - unless Olympic caliber or close. It also seems that the ‘bands’ differ by school even in the same sport - and appear based on the ‘one standard deviation from the mean’ based on the prior year. (no idea how to translate that mathmatically). A look at the ranges posted by the school for the mean 50th percentile appears relevant - the bottom end of that range seems as low as one can expect a coach to go…</p>

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<p>“There’s many a slip, twixt the cup and the lip”…I hate to be a killjoy, but the boards are littered with prospies who were mis-led or mis-read. The coach has the power. You have the athlete. Most coaches are mostly honest. As I never chance on “practice SAT scores”, I would never announce an IVY commitment til I had the LL in my hand.</p>

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<p>Father – this article is old but will help you understand the Nescac slots system <a href=“One Division III Conference Finds That Playing the Slots System Pays Off - The New York Times”>One Division III Conference Finds That Playing the Slots System Pays Off - The New York Times;

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<p>Father – I would also add the following:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Ivy coaches do not play dice. They do not take risks with recruits they really want on the premise that the recruit has high academics and might be admitted anyway. If that message is being received, it likely is because the recruit is not highly ranked. Factor that into any evaluation of likely playing time. </p></li>
<li><p>General view is that it is doubtful that Ivy coaches hold much sway beyond the number of likely letter slots they are allotted on the theory that admissions officers begrudgingly grant the likely letter slots because they have to and are unlikely to do anything more than that.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Post #34 At least in girls lacrosse, the Ivies are announcing early commitments themselves. There is a blog where recruiting is tracked by graduating year, and as soon as the 2016 list opened, several of the Ivies posted the (then) sophomores who had committed. You can tell that the school posted them because they are assigned a number and Brown has 4-5 in a row, Harvard too.</p>

<p>Of course many things can change between sophomore and senior year and the likely letter, but the schools feel strongly enough that they are making these offers 2 years before they can even do a pre-read. Some of these 10th graders may have taken an SAT or two, but most haven’t, haven’t taken a AP class or test, only have 1.5 years of grades.</p>

<p>I knew students who announce they were rowing for Yale when they were only juniors too. And they did.</p>

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<p>I don’t think I would allow my son to announce anything unless he were clearly admitted - with the LL or the admissions letter. It just does not seem wise. </p>

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<p>Crew is one of the few(maybe only) college sports where the number of HS rowers is actually lower than the number of college spots for rowers-by a 2-1 ratio, I believe. 3 students from my town walked-on to crew at Cornell. So I wouldn’t count on crew as a representative example.</p>