<p>I was thinking the same thing, simba. Talk about “egocentric”!</p>
<p>Calmom - I thought it was interesting that you noticed that Obama didn’t really give a straight answer to the “superhero” question - EW asked which “superhero” would you be, not “superheroES”, and of course Obama had to pick TWO (lest he alienate any fans of the non-chosen!). </p>
<p>Given also, his “present” votes, it must just be in his nature to pick A AND B instead of A OR B. While I think this aspect is useful in trying to see both sides of an issue, but it can be paralyzing when a decision MUST be made.</p>
<p>bz, Obama cast more 4,000 votes in the Illinois Senate. 130 times he voted present - that is 3% of the time. About 50 of those present votes were as part of a concerted effort with other members of his party. Many of the present votes were for bills that were assured of passage, but were “mixed bag” pieces of legislation where Obama agreed with some provisions but disagreed with others. Example:
<p>Speaking of ducking issues, how come McCain didn’t show up to vote on the Webb GI bill, even though he had actively worked against it? You think maybe he didn’t want to go on record voting against increased benefits for the troops? (Since he turned around right away and tried to take credit for its passage, it looks that way to me). </p>
<p>And why has McCain missed so many votes this year on important issues? He’s running around trying to make Bush call Congress back in session, when he himself hasn’t cast a single vote since April. (He can’t say that he needed to be out campaigning when the GOP nomination was settled back in February. He’s also missed votes when both Obama showed up to take the heat, like the recent FISA bill). </p>
<p>In 2007, Sen. McCain missed all 15 critical environmental votes in the Senate, so he received a score of “0” from the League of Conservation voters. </p>
<p>In 2007, McCain was the only senator who failed to vote on a motion to invoke cloture (thus limiting debate) on the Energy Independence and Security Act, to invest in new clean energy technologies such as wind and solar, and efficiency. Sixty votes were required for passage. The motion was rejected 59-40.</p>
<p>McCain was also the only Senator to miss the vote on the 2008 Recovery Rebates and Economic Stimulus for the American People Act. Again, the Senate vote failed to invoke cloture by one vote, which resulted in forcing renewable energy incentives to be dropped from the legislation. </p>
<p>So watch who you slime… not showing up at all is even worse than a “present” vote. The taxpayers do pay this guy a salary.</p>
<p>“My values,” makes perfect sense to me. When we raise our children, we try to impart OuR values-my husband’s and mine. Not “societal values” ( we disagree with some of them!) and not “human values” (what doesn’t that even mean?), but our own values based on our own beliefs and our own interpretation. My values may not be your values. Is that so surprising and contemptible? I’m just amazed at the lengths some will go to demonize this man. This was a personal question, and he anwsered it in a personal way.
I liked his answers, quite a bit.</p>
<p>I think acting in accordance to one’s own values is a good definition of integrity.</p>
<p>Does that mean all values are equal, and that if someone thinks it’s in his value system to kill, it’s then ok? No, of course not,although I know someone will bring this up. One has to look at the values in a broader scheme. We can disagree about values. But there’s certainly nothing wrong with having values of one’s own. I hope my children always will, and will act accordingly.</p>
<p>I find this the most telling statement since this was a discussion about Christian faith. This statement goes against the teachings of pretty much every mainline Christian church. If one can save oneself by living their life as well as they can, why do they need a savior? What was the purpose of having Jesus die on a cross?</p>
<p>Actually, this is the belief among Catholics. They do believe good works matter. But some don’t think it’s “christian enough?” </p>
<p>It does go against Evangelical teachings, I realize, where asking Jesus to be your savior is what matters. </p>
<p>I was brought up in a Protestant church, and learned that I would be rewarded in the afterlife if I lived according to Jesus’s teachings. Maybe things in “the mainline Christian church” have changed in the last 30 years, but I don’t think there’s anything “telling” about his statement that puts him out of the mainstream. He’s talking about the afterlife.</p>
<p>Catholics believe in a mixture of good works and faith. Read the statement of belief of any mainline church. For example the mainline (considered liberal) Presbyterian Church PCUSA states:</p>
<p>God has always been faithful to the people of Israel and to the church. Presbyterians believe God has offered us salvation because of God’s loving nature. It is not a right or a privilege to be earned by being “good enough.” No one of us is good enough on our own–we are all dependent upon God’s goodness and mercy. From the kindest, most devoted churchgoer to the most blatant sinner, we are all saved solely by the grace of God.</p>
<p>So, you’re saying Obama doesn’t have faith? He didn’t say that. He said that his good works will be rewarded. Without faith, this isn’t possible. It’s very much along the Catholic way of thinking.</p>
<p>But I know that Catholics are not Chistian enough for some people, to say nothing of Mormons.</p>
<p>I have to admit that I’ve kind of gone under the philosophy that it isn’t a sin if I don’t feel guilty about it. Very akin to what Obama said. There is no Big Book of Sins out there that we have to reference (please don’t start quoting scripture…). Drinking alcohol is a sin to some and not to others. I may not be an Obama supporter but I understand what he is saying.</p>
<p>From the website of my mainline denomination (United Methodist):</p>
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</p>
<p>Also, this:</p>
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</p>
<p>Belief leads to action. Many people think the two have to be linked. I would be surprised if that isn’t the message of UCC, Obama’s denomination. I don’t think we can find “telling” faith messages from his interview.</p>
<p>Whether good works come as a result of faith or are a necessary component of salvation is not my point. My point is that if this is Obama’s statement of faith, it lacks any discussion of faith in a savior (essential to mainline Christian theology). Perhaps it was not intended to be a statement of faith.</p>
<p>Well, CM, your point seems to keep changing, or rather, it just hints. Things are “telling” or they’re “lacking in discussion” of what you want him to discuss. As Marite says, he was answering a particular question. I didn’t see it anywhere proclaiming to be a “statement of faith.”</p>
<p>If you truly want Obama’s “Statement of Faith”, collegemom, perhaps you should look for it in his book “The Audacity of Hope”. He writes at length about his faith in Jesus Christ and what he believes in general. But then again, perhaps you shouldn’t. It might muddy the waters for you, and cause you to perhaps, you know…change your mind…:rolleyes:</p>
<p>I’m interested in knowing why people care about his faith? Are you worried about whether he is going to heaven or not? Does having faith make him better qualified to be president? With all the joking about “The One” Bush really seemed to believe that he was “The One” selected by God to lead the world to democracy. If a president ties his decisions to the belief that God has had a hand in those decisions, doesn’t that make it really hard to change his or her mind?</p>