I’m on the Michigan thread - a student well above the 25th percentile (but OOS which apparently matters) was deferred and didn’t submit. Wants to know if they should submit.
I hypothesize yes - because 78% of enrollees did and take out URMs (you can’t see the box anymore but it can still be found), first gen, athletes - you’re likely over 80%.
Sure - I don’t know what % of rejections also submitted and at what scores.
but if 78% and likely over 80% of unhooked submitted scores - that doesn’t seem very optional to me.
My kids’ private school in Florida used plusses and minuses. An A+ was 4.33 but an A- was 3.67. When they applied to UF, they saw the GPA recalculation. Every A was a 4; every B was a 3. Only core classes mattered. Even AP Comp Sci did not count toward GPA. I assume its value was in rigor.
People posting a GPA may not be mindful that how their high school calculates their GPA is not the same as how a college looks at it. I tell my public high school students (to their shock and dismay) that unless you are being recruited for the volleyball team, nobody really cares that you got an A in your volleyball elective PE class.
It would be nice if schools were actually looking at some of those papers, projects, etc. instead of a cumulative GPA that means completely different things at different schools. Between my first kid applying 5 years ago and my second kid now, Williams has replaced their supplemental essay with the option of submitting an academic paper. Amherst has the option to do this as well. I hope it’s the start of a trend, as I think you can tell a lot more about a kid’s potential for success at college level work by looking at some of their actual high school work than by reading yet another personal essay.
Yes, but there’s not really ANYTHING that’s not like that. Williams requests a graded paper with comments from a teacher if possible, so I think that hedges against it a bit (and gives them context to evaluate it–i.e. what kinds of expectations there are for academic work at a given student’s school).
However, not all standardized tests are equally predictive. For example, some past studies by Harvard and UC found that SAT subject tests (now discontinued) were more predictive than the SAT or ACT, and Harvard noted that AP or IB tests were the most predictive. Both also noted that HS GPA was more predictive than the SAT or ACT (which the College Board also noted), although there was less grade inflation and compression at the top back then.
But using less mainstream tests has its own issues, mainly access and knowledge among less advantaged students and their teachers and counselors that they may be useful or important. AP or IB scores on advanced level content are less likely to be available at college application time.
Back when I took the SAT, I did no more than 15 minutes of prep, which was doing the sample questions in the booklet with the signup form. It is not like SAT or ACT prep has to consume hundreds of hours over weeks or months.
No sure if this thread is still active, but seems relevant.
My daughter who will be a high school senior this fall is truly struggling with standardized testing.
She’s got everything else down. She’s super bright, focused, high GPA (4UW/4.4W), very biology and STEM focused (she hopes to be pre-med given her own medical history), as are her extra-curriculars, leadership positions in a couple of clubs very focused on her interests (music and Health Occupations related), etc.
The one thing she is truly struggling to crack is the SAT. I do not like the anxiety it is creating for her and don’t want her to keep taking the test and feeling miserable. I really really want her to have some down time and not be as anxious about this, as she tends to push herself quite hard.
Here’s my real question. With many highly ranked schools now asking for test scores, do you think those that say “Test optional” are also going to be looking for those scores? Will “test optional” truly mean “test optional” for the high school graduating class of 2025?
Thank you in advance for your responses.
This is (sadly) variable by school. At many schools test optional does mean test optional, especially the ones that have been test optional for a long time (about 1,000 schools were TO prior to the pandemic.) Some schools prefer scores. Sometimes this is stated in their admissions sessions (whether virtual or live). You can also look at each school’s common data set (CDS) Question C9 to see the proportion of enrolled students who submitted test scores for another data point.
I’ll just throw in and I don’t know what the MCAT is based on - but I believe at LECOM, you don’t need to take the MCAT. @momsearcheng student goes to Rhodes which is a LECOM partner. Just wondering if it’s anything like the SAT in any way or your student would struggle with any standardized test, this might be away around it for a student who wants to be a physician.
Back to your question - some schools are 40% or less test submitters as far as who enrolled and some are 70%, etc. So @Mwfan1921 pointed out how to find out.
A friend of mine who has been practicing medicine for over three decades recently had to sit for a series of exams to keep her license current. Her hospital filed the paperwork for a waiver (zero malpractice suits, high rates of favorable outcomes and patient satisfaction, zero complaints by colleagues or by the hospital case review committee) and it was denied. All physicians in this specialty were required to re-test in order to maintain their license,
A kid who is very test-resistant is not going to enjoy being a physician. Getting in is the easy part compared to the frequent “go or no-go” testing.
Actually DOs don’t have the same exact licensing as MDs. In some states, there are separate medical licensing boards for MDs and DOs. However, the requirements are nearly identical in terms of education, post-graduate training (residency and fellowship) and standardized testing. The major difference-- MDs have to have passing USMLE scores; DOs have to have passing COMLEX scores.
Passing COMLEX (for DOs) or passing USMLE (for MDs) is also a graduation requirement at every US med school in the country.
So, nope, no way around taking standardized exams. MCAT is just the first and easiest of these exams.
Accommodations are available but these are very, very difficult to get. Every level of training someone moves up the harder it is to get accommodations. It’s almost impossible to get accommodations for specialty boards and for USMLE/COMLEX–even if one is able to get accommodations for the ACT/SAT/MCAT.
Varies by school. One school may be truly test optional, but another may really prefer to see an SAT or ACT score but give some leniency for applicants in situations where test accessibility is limited (e.g. disadvantaged applicants from CA or WA).
Sometimes, statements by the college give a hint. For example, some colleges are returning to test required for high school class of 2026 applicants, hinting that they prefer tests, but want to give enough advance notice since high school class of 2025 students may not have planned testing and may find availability problems at this stage.
