<p>“My question to you (maybe OT). If you think that government should be involved in so many aspects of our lives, why did you home-school your kids?”</p>
<p>Long conversation, but didn’t I begin to answer it in the previous post? (I mean why would I voluntarily send my kids into a place where they would be slowly poisoned?)</p>
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<p>So he could encounter, discuss, and debate with people like me over the years. 
Well, probably not why, but it’s a side benefit!</p>
<p>Mini,</p>
<p>I have a follow up question then. How do you reconcile a notion that a government can do a good job at running programs such as health care (which if I recall correctly you think they can do a good job at), but not schools.</p>
<p>“At whom? I must have missed that post. Seems like this is a pretty thoughtful discussion.” </p>
<p>“It just takes more time and effort, which many people are not willing to give.”</p>
<p>"Sorry, don’t buy the excuse that packing a lunch is all that difficult of time consuming. A pain in the rump and boring, yes, difficult - no. "</p>
<p>I think it is very easy for most people to brush off the difficulty the very poor in this country have feeding, clothing and putting a roof over their family’s heads and deem it because the simply don’t put in the time and effort it requires. </p>
<p>Most poor people work longer hours in a day and more days in a week than most of us. Most have to have more than one job. Every day things we take for granted, like reliable transportation, is often a struggle for poor people. Or stopping on our way home to pick up something for dinner that night or the kids lunches the next morning. </p>
<p>Anyway, I’m done with thread. It makes me too sad to see so many people with a complete lack of understanding what it is like to be really poor.</p>
<p>“How do you reconcile a notion that a government can do a good job at running programs such as health care (which if I recall correctly you think they can do a good job at), but not schools.”</p>
<p>Discussed multiple times already. I think governments do an EXCELLENT job at running schools, producing the workforce needed for the 21st Century. Which is exactly what public schools are set up to do. Think Walmart clerks. And the reason that they don’t change is that they are really good at what they do.</p>
<p><a href=“http://homeedmag.com/HEM/192/magatto.php[/url]”>Home - Home Education Magazine;
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You mean the people who posted that they grew up poor?</p>
<p>As I’ve posted, myself, my husband does and has worked two jobs for many years. I know what it is like to be poor and I celebrate the fact that I no longer have to make my son’s lunch.</p>
<p>Even poor people have a responsibility to handle the tasks of life and most wouldn’t want it any other way.</p>
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Going from packing a lunch to that is a bit of a stretch.</p>
<p>In any case, I hope your eye is ok and that you are better very soon.</p>
<p>Emilybee,</p>
<p>do YOU have first hand experience being poor? </p>
<p>The reason why I am asking is because my family was a poor immigrant family at some point of time. We could have remained poor, because we qualified for welfare, food stamps and myriad of other programs. But we made a conscious choice not to remain poor. We did have to work hard to learn the language, get education, etc. to pull ourselves out of poverty.</p>
<p>While living in poverty, I observed a lot of long term residents around me. I have to say that those who are still in the situation where I were are there because of the choices they made. </p>
<p>I may sound very harsh and heartless to you, but I’ve been there, 've done that. In US it is very much possible not to be poor if you make the right choices in your life.</p>
<p>Mini,</p>
<p>I think I understand where you are coming from. Correct me if I am wrong. Are you saying that the objective of public school system is to provide bare minimum education? (Which I think historically makes a lot of sense).</p>
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<p>This was once true but no longer. We have become an increasingly entitled society with laws and opportunities geared towards the wealthy and elite. Wages are not keeping up with inflation/cost of living and jobs are increasingly outsourced to cheaper labor in other countries.</p>
<p>Is anyone familiar with Mayor Bloomberg’s PR campaign to lower the rates of teen pregnancy? Thoughts?</p>
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<p>As long as it is not the kids of the teens that are ostracized, but the teens themselves, why not give it a try?</p>
<p>I actually think it’s a good approach. Something similar with soda would be good, along the lines of the disgusting smoking ads. I’m not above going for the gross out.</p>
<p>Although I may not get over the beef lungs thing today.</p>
<p>emilybee was looking for a reason to be offended. I made the first comment she criticized, but my comment was not even directed specifically at the poor. Cooking healthy takes more time and effort for everyone than eating processed or fast foods. Many people, of all income levels, are not willing to devote the time and effort it takes to eat right. Even though it is cheaper to do so.</p>
<p>And, as I’m sure zoosermom knows, Bloomberg has been attacked for the anti-teen pregnancy ads.</p>
<p><a href=“In Fighting Teenage Pregnancy, Bloomberg Errs by Playing Shame Game - The New York Times”>In Fighting Teenage Pregnancy, Bloomberg Errs by Playing Shame Game - The New York Times;
<p>This is mild compared to some of the attacks. For example, because some of the kids pictured in the ads are black or Hispanic, the ads are “racist.” That’s ridiculous, IMO.</p>
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<p>from a lifestyle standpoint, is there really a big difference between poor people and some college students? Some go to school, get a ton of homework, and work multiple part time jobs. </p>
<p>IMO, those with the initiative to recognize what they need to change, and then execute, will turn out alright. I’ve seen poor people. Not all of them deserve pity.</p>
<p>Some of the kids are not black or Hispanic, so go figure. I read an interesting column in support of the ads in The Root today from a columnist who is usually pretty liberal. Her take was that it’s better for the potential teen parents to be a little bothered than for their potential babies to face a lifetime of difficulty.</p>
<p>Mississippi’s response</p>
<p>[Soda</a> Wars Backlash: Mississippi Passes ‘Anti-Bloomberg’ Bill : The Salt : NPR](<a href=“Soda Wars Backlash: Mississippi Passes 'Anti-Bloomberg' Bill : The Salt : NPR”>Soda Wars Backlash: Mississippi Passes 'Anti-Bloomberg' Bill : The Salt : NPR)</p>
<p>Beef lungs?? I 've never ever thought about eating them or a soup made of them. If you ever are here for dinner, Mini, I’ll try to get them for you. Maybe easier at my brother’s place in Palo Alto. And they are illegal, now you say? I’m sure they can be found in Queens somewhere, not that I’ll be looking. </p>
<p>No good place to live when the pay is at poverty level, but there is a lot in NYC within arms reach, (some of it not so good). It all comes down to who your family is and how well they can cope and the infrastructure that they have made. </p>
<p>Advice to anyone to leave a place, if it’s not to the liking, is rather shallow. When you are living at poverty level and have others for whom you are responsible and some who help you out too, it’s not so easy to just walk out. Especially with no funds. There was a book written some years ago where a writer tried to make a go of it by starting up in places, looking for work and trying to make a go at it. Not too good. But she had the advantage of a little nest egg, her car, and of course knowing that she could drop the charade at any time. But what she did not take into account is that most people do have friends, family and an infrastructure they build for themselves where they live that can stretch the resources a bit and help out. That’s what often makes the difference between making it and not. </p>
<p>My teenaged niece had a baby, and it’s a tough go as to how to handle such a situation. Cute baby, of course. Niece has been a mess for a while and the first positive reinforcement she’s gotten in a while is the baby. Gifts, a shower, attention, praise as to how wonderful the baby is. She wants another, of course. </p>
<p>No stink eye from me towards anyone having their kids buy lunch. You can afford it, you pick your luxuries.</p>
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<p>It seems arrogant to assume this of an unknown group of people.</p>
<p>You’re right…not all poor people deserve pity. However, as far as I am concerned, ALL of the KIDS do. </p>
<p>It’s a LOT different being a college student. </p>
<p>First, you’ve got some kind of health insurance. You may be able to go to the college health service and not even pay a co-pay. (Uninsured kids is another thing Bloomberg has worked hard on.) Compare this to a working class mom whose kids get sick. Standard co-pay per visit can be as high as $40. So, two kids sick enough to see the doc means $80 out of pocket. That’s hard on minimum wage. It’s even worse if you had to take off from work to get them there.</p>
<p>Second, you usually live in safe housing. I do too. Lots people in major cities don’t. The drug dealers and others break the security cameras and door locks as soon as they are installed. They hang out in the lobby. To get into or out of the building, you have to walk through them. They offer your 10 year old money to deliver a package or warn them when the cops are coming. They don’t like it if your kid refuses. </p>
<p>The decent residents of projects would LOVE to have the same sort of security the Columbia, NYU, Fordham, etc. dorms have.</p>
<p>If you save up and buy anything decent, they will figure out a way to break in and steal it. If you are so foolish as to carry it with you, they will mug you to get it. This is not a risk; this is a virtual certainty. </p>
<p>When you get your paycheck, you go to the check cashing place because it’s next to impossible to open a checking account if you don’t have a regular full time job and, at some banks, it better be with a major company.( If you can’t keep at least $1500 in it, you have to pay for it. ) So, you lose about 10%-15% of your paycheck right off the top.</p>
<p>Oh, and college kids usually don’t have kids. Poor people do. You might think they aren’t entitled to have them, but they feel otherwise. </p>
<p>College kids have hope. This will be over at some point in time. Poor people often lose hope–they try and they can’t seem to get ahead. Some get discouraged and stop trying. I think this is one reason immigrants do better–they have hope.</p>