What exactly happens if you back out of Early Decision?

stacy · March 15, 2008, 2:13pm

[The</a> Harvard Crimson :: News :: Harvard Takes Back Hornstine Admission Offer](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=348498]The”>http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=348498)

"According to Director of Undergraduate Admissions Marlyn McGrath Lewis ’70-’73, who declined comment on [the specific case of a girl whose Harvard admission was revoked after her plagiarism was revealed], Harvard admission is contingent on five conditions enumerated for students upon their acceptance—including one which stipulates admission will be revoked “if you engage in behavior that brings into question your honesty, maturity, or moral character.”

IF you got into Harvard (a gigantic if) your failure to withdraw RD applications would clearly fall afoul of this policy. If you think you’re good enough to get into Harvard, you’d be so much better off transferring in or taking a gap year and applying for 2009 entry.

It seems apparent that you have your heart set on acting immorally and are just looking for people to validate you. That’s pretty pathetic and immature, but you’re the one who will have to deal with the consequences.

cogitoergosum · March 15, 2008, 2:21pm

I am not acting immorally.I am just trying to make sure Harvard honors ED.If it doesn’t,why should I be holier than the thou?

curmudgeon · March 15, 2008, 2:24pm

I echo thumper. Leave this .

mountains · March 15, 2008, 2:28pm

I agree, and I was so hopeful back in my post #200.

soozievt · March 15, 2008, 2:33pm

Since you already got tons of realistic, informative, and appropriate advice, I won’t repeat it.

But in an nutshell, to respond to this quote you just wrote:

The answer to that is YES, Harvard DOES honor ED commitments that their applicants made to other colleges and a list of ED admitted students is circulated amongst the selective colleges. Even if Harvard doesn’t choose to use an ED process at their own institution, they definitely honor the ED process at other colleges and will rescind the admissions (or not accept in the first place) students in the RD round who have been accepted ED at other colleges. Please know this (on top of the good advice you have received).

tokenadult · March 15, 2008, 9:21pm

<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/education/edlife/strategy.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/education/edlife/strategy.html</a>

I read, therefore I obey the rules.

owlice · March 15, 2008, 9:27pm

You already HAVE, by submitting applications after you signed the ED agreement. Do you really not understand that?!

And you continue to do so by not doing the right thing, which is withdrawing those applications you shouldn’t have submitted in the first place.

rocketman08 · March 16, 2008, 1:07am

Yes they will find out and yes they will now withdraw the acceptance. If you applied ED and were accepted then that’s where you have to go… that’s what you signed up for.

OdysseyTigger · March 16, 2008, 2:12am

“I am just trying to make sure that Harvard honors ED”

OP

Harvard has ALWAYS honored ED.

Context is everything in regard to your red herring.

Harvard’s objections in June of 2002 to honoring early decision was limited to those students who (following the rules) applied to and were accepted simultaneously at both Harvard and an ED school.

Prior to 2002, students could not apply ED to some college AND EA to Harvard (or any other school).

In 2002, the NACAC rules were changed and it became acceptable to apply to both a binding ED school and a non binding one.

From the NYT 6/8/02:

"Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth and Stanford are among the colleges with binding early decision programs, and a student seeking early admission can apply to only one of them. Harvard, the only Ivy League institution that does not compel the applicants whom it admits early to enroll, has always respected early decision pledges made to its competitors.

But now Harvard says it is considering reversing that position, sealed only with a handshake, in response to a little-noticed policy change last fall by a national association of admissions officers and guidance counselors.

Previously, an applicant to a binding program for early admission could not also apply to a nonbinding early program like Harvard’s. The new policy stipulates that students applying to a binding program also be permitted to apply early to one college that does not require a promise to attend.

The new policy, which applies to the hundreds of top colleges that are members of the National Association for College Admission Counseling, does state that ‘‘the early decision application supersedes all other applications’’ and that ‘‘immediately upon acceptance of admission, a student must withdraw all other applications and make no subsequent applications.’’

But Bill Fitzsimmons, the dean of admissions and financial aid at Harvard, said that rule is open to interpretation on a critical point: if an applicant is admitted early to both an institution like the University of Pennsylvania, which considers the admission binding, and to Harvard, can Harvard enroll the student?

In such a situation, Mr. Fitzsimmons said, the university had yet to decide whether it would consider a student’s agreement with Penn to be binding on Harvard, should the applicant decide he or she preferred Harvard to Penn."

Harvard apparently resolved the dilemma by creating and instituting SCEA, (years before the NACAC again changed their rules to cover it)

From the Harvard Gazette:
For the third year in a row, close to 4,000 students have applied for admission to Harvard under its nonbinding Early Action program. This number is in stark contrast to the fall of 2002, when early application numbers soared to over 7,600. At that time, Harvard followed a now-modified requirement of the National Association of College Admissions Counselors that allowed students to apply simultaneously to an unlimited number of Early Action colleges, as well as to one binding Early Decision school. Eventually, in response to what admissions officials considered widespread confusion for college aspirants, Harvard three years ago returned to its long-standing policy of single-choice Early Action, requiring its early candidates to forgo early applications elsewhere.

Karen_Colleges · March 16, 2008, 4:34am

By Definition:
Decision, “The act of reaching a conclusion or making up one’s mind”

We are talking about a done deal. I’m amazed that it is still under discussion.

ctmomof3 · March 16, 2008, 9:25am

OP…on one hand I pity you, you seem to lack the guidance and support system that many of the students on this board have at this disposal. You have implied more than once that your parents are uninvolved in this process and clearly are in a school, which does not have the most effective system in place, otherwise this would have not been overlooked and there is no way you would have been able to keep those applications to Harvard alive.

On the other hand, you are basically admitting your dishonesty and lack of integrity. At 17 or 18 I realize you are still growing up, but doing the right thing is something that even a 3 or 4 year old knows. Where is your moral compass? You must have a hard time sleeping at night…I know I would. Clearly you do have some conscience, otherwise you would not continue to monitor this thread and respond accordingly. Deep down you know what you are proposing to do is wrong. Identifying someone is much easier than you obviously realize on these boards, you are treading in very dangerous waters. If you are smart and wish to preserve your golden opportunities, then you will do the right thing and retract your applications, make a go of it at the LAC that has accepted you, and if it doesn’t work out, then clearly you are a very capable student who other schools in a year or so will be happy to accept as a transfer.

A brief story…my stepson, a VERY smart kid, applied ED to a top school, looking back he wasn’t 100% sure about it but was pushed by his guidance counselor to do so, thought he had retracted all his apps. (his school makes the kids do that) but lo and behold one April day he gets in a huge packet from a very top Ivy. He is shocked at this point as are we, since we thought he no longer had any other apps. pending…of course he immediately wants to renege on his former contract. His father discusses with the school and decided he cannot do it, its not worth the risk no matter. After endless days of pure chaos and mayhem, the decision is final, he must honor his previous commitment. He didn’t talk to his father for weeks, but I respected my husband for doing what he did. It showed tremendous integrity, character and above all else honor. My stepson went on to college 3 years ago, absolutely loved it, (the one he got into ED) way more than he ever thought. Got over very quickly the lost chance to attend the ivy, met a very special girl who he has been dating for almost 3 years now and overall is very happy. The point is without the guidance of my husband, my stepson possibly could have made the same stupid mistake you are considering and I am certain he would have lost both admissions and if he was lucky ended up in our local comm. college. Don’t make a mistake you will regret for the rest of your life.

My suggestion, think long and hard before you do the things you are talking about, these colleges are very smart and believe me, its hard to “outsmart” them. You may think you have it all figured out, give the LAC a shot and be able to sleep at night.

Coopjust · March 16, 2008, 10:51am

School GCs will usually hold you to it unless the FA isn’t enough for the ED school. If they don’t hold you to your ED, that school will probably take it out on future applicants, and depending on the college they may share the fact that the school didn’t hold students to their contract with other institutions. Most high schools will not risk that.

At my school, they take it very seriously. The school has it’s own ED contract as an additional, which stipulates that you have to present a letter of deferral or rejection from ED before they will send application materials to other colleges, and if you somehow apply behind the counselors back (e.x. they give you sealed app materials in an unaddressed envelope, you claim that you need to overnight it or something), they will notify the ED school and any other RD schools.

Of course, rumor has it that a student with an ED at Yale (at my HS) did not keep his contract, and Yale has not admitted a single student for many years, at least 5 years if I remember correctly, and those students were accepted at other ivies (Naviance). The school guidance office won’t talk about it, so it falls under speculation, but they got a lot more serious about ED at that point.

Consolation · March 16, 2008, 3:07pm

OP says:

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You acted immorally when you submitted other applications after getting an ED acceptance. You acted immorally when you didn’t withdraw them.

If someone else is a liar and a cheat, does that mean it is acceptable for YOU to be? I can imagine you in a science lab in the future, falsifying your data because “if someone else does it, why should I be holier than the [sic] thou.” I can imagine you in an investment firm, trading on inside information, because “if someone else does it, why should I be holier than the [sic] thou.” It really fills me with despair.

At this point, my only hope is that Cog is not really exploring a personal situation, but instead is a student conducting a social science experiment of some kind.

drb · March 16, 2008, 6:23pm

A contrarian view here for the OP - stick it out! While the posters here advise you how seriously schools take ED commitments, none are actually involved in the admissions process and thus cannot state authoritatively that exceptions are not made. I’d bet it happens all the time. In the statistically unlikely event you get in, plead ignorance, poor advising, changed circumstances, whatever. Most important, lie like hell. (Which you will need to do, as you are now aware of what is required of the honest applicant). Given the general tenor of your posts, I will guess that you have so before to good effect, and would have no qualms about doing so again. It is clear that for many people in positions of stature and responsibility, lying has played an important role in their career development (cf. Marian Jones), at least until they get caught. Why should you be expected to have any greater moral compass? You go, girl!

curmudgeon · March 16, 2008, 6:41pm

drb, ;). LOL.

thumper1 · March 16, 2008, 6:46pm

drb…so your tongue is WHERE in your cheek?

ctmomof3 · March 17, 2008, 6:11am

drb by lying and possibly getting out of this, though I highly doubt it and am nearly positive the deceitfulness will come to light and when it does will result in BOTH schools taking back their acceptances, what really is the silver lining here? OK lets say for a few months she gets away with it, gee if I were here, I would be living in fear every day that THAT is the day they may find me out.
What kind of a way is that to live? Also being able to lie, cheat your way out of something which no one forced you to commit to anyway, will inevitably lead to bigger more substantial lies and no doubt will get this kid in bigger trouble, in harder situations to get out of. Don’t set yourself up for a lifetime to lies and story telling, creating a web of deceit, you will soon not like even yourself for it, don’t you want to proceed with a clean conscience?
At most, I would say sit down, write a heartfelt letter to the school in question, expressing your TRUE and HONEST feelings, you never know perhaps one will take pity on you. Was fin. aid a question, perhaps you could play the money card if worst comes to worst, but do the honorable thing and trust that God will have everything work out as its meant to be.

sybbie719 · March 17, 2008, 6:21am

I am quite sure (although they can speak for themselves) that drb’s was just being sarcastic when s/he made this post.

drb · March 17, 2008, 9:20am

I would like to say I was sarcastic, but ctmom has topped my own post with her advice that the OP try to manage the situation by “expressing your TRUE and HONEST feelings”. Given that the OP has revealed that she sent her apps after ED acceptance, and that she certainly knows now that they should be withdrawn, truth and honesty has long since been discarded. There is only one “honorable thing” to do, and it ain’t writing letters hoping for pity, or playing money cards, or trusting God to sort out a deficiency of individual responsibility. But all too frequently the life lesson is “do whatever it takes”, which, as I said, I suspect the OP has done before, so why stop now. Especially given that it often works.

Northstarmom · March 17, 2008, 9:34am

It is absolutely amazing how far (and how many posts) someone will go to try to convince themselves that it’s fine to be deceitful.

What exactly happens if you back out of Early Decision?

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