<p>Xiggi notes,"Check the explosion in admission percentages in the past 30 years among asian students a group hardly known for athletic or social participation and success "</p>
<p>Response: I certainly can’t speak for all Asian students or even a majority of Asian students; however, we have a sizeable Asian population in our high school. (40%). When we met with other parents about where their kids got accepted/rejected and what ECs and stats that they had, I have found that many Asian kids did have some nice ECs including sports. Yes, there were few Asian football players; however, there were a number of Asian Tennis players on the varsity. We also had a number of Asian dramatists and a LOT of top notch Asian musicians. Certainly math team, physics teams and other “all academic” teams also had strong Asian presence. They also had a strong presence in visual art programs too.</p>
<p>Yeah, I was ignoring the Asian comment. It’s now untrue and unfair. AND I didn’t like the tone of his words because to me they feel dismissive and maybe racist . But perhaps that’s because I spend a lot of time in the PRC and you can’t generalize 1.x billion people. And because I don’t believe in applying limiting stereotypes to groups of people.</p>
<p>“AND I didn’t like the tone of his words because to me they feel dismissive and maybe racist”</p>
<p>I take exception to the attempt to categorize my comment as dismissive or racist, and I stand by the factual and CONTEMPORARY evidence. There is a world of difference between over-generalizing the attributes of a particular sub-group and drawing conclusions about reported statistics and common knowledge. For instance, identifying the variances in SAT scores among Hispanics and Asians is not racist. Identifying the ethnic differences in high school dropout rates is not racist. Identifying the differences in extra-curricular activities, and especially the differences between activities that lead to individual recognition versus team recognition, is not racist nor dismissive. </p>
<p>Even in this day of PC overzeal, one cannot dismiss the combination of factual statistical evidence and personal experience because it is contradicted by singular and anecdotal accounts or does not have the “correct” tone.</p>
<p>“Yeah, I was ignoring the Asian comment. It’s now untrue and unfair. AND I didn’t like the tone of his words because to me they feel dismissive and maybe racist.”</p>
<p>This is an interestingly PC statement. Is it enough that something “feels” dismissive and racist, even if it’s not?</p>
<p>Whatever. The comment put my hackles up and I’m white enough to have an ancestor who signed the Declaration of Independence. Especially the part about social success. Doesn’t matter. Sidetrack to the thread.</p>
part of this may just be a stats problem … pure guesses on my part follow … </p>
<p>There are probably 30 varsity sports at my kid’s HS so each year maybe 250 seniors play at least 1 varsity sport … that is about 50% of the class … so making no other assumptions I expect about 50% of the kids accepted to any college from this HS to be a HS varsity athlete</p>
<p>How many kids play instruments in a serious way? … probably about 10% or so. How many kids are involved in theatre in a serious way? … probably 1-2%. How many kids are involved in the school paper or other literary activity in a serious way? … less than 5% I’d guess. How many kids are involved in academic ECs in a serious way? … less the 5% again.</p>
<p>Given the current activities of the seniors at my kid’s HS if schools are weighing the ECs evenly we’d expect a lot more kids accepted to schools to have varsity sports as an EC … because more kids play sports.</p>
<p>(These stats also count kids who are vasity athletes and another major EC in the vasity athlete bin … it is true they are varsity athletes but for these kids it’s not clear that sports was the hook or tip factor … if we knew varsity athlete only kids that would be of more value).</p>
<p>Agree that adcoms/employers have statistical and anecdotal support for concluding that participation in varsity athletics increases the likelihood of an applicant having skills necessary for success in college/workplace, including experience/desire to:</p>
<p>– Set short/long term strategies and goals (from game plans to season expectations to personal “bests”)
– Listen to instructors (coaches), and apply what they teach (execute plays)
– Manage time effectively (the athlete’s AP Calc homework is still due the morning after he arrives home from his away game at 9:30 pm)
– Earn the respect of bosses (coaches) and colleagues (teammates) through daily and long-term performance
– Devote personal best efforts, while working cooperatively to accomplish assigned tasks (slackers and ball hogs ride the bench)
– Learn the rules and follow them (those who draw too many penalty flags don’t last long on most teams)
– Show up on time, ready to work (lateness and laziness are ground to lose that varsity letter)
– Honor the institution she represents, on and off the field (the right to wear the colors is revocable for on- and off-field misbehavior)
– Deal with setbacks (losses) and limitations (injuries) constructively, without giving up and by drawing lessons from them
– Practice the self-discipline necessary for a healthy lifestyle and maximum performance (whether at the frat house, training table, or gym)<br>
– Accept responsibility for the final product (score and season record)
– Perform her assigned role for the good of the organization (pitching in relief may not be her first choice)
– Respect and accept authority (refs), even when he disagrees (bad calls)
– Be loyal and expect loyalty in others!</p>
<p>To be sure, these desirable characteristics evolve from many, many other ECs! But adcoms/employers know that they will often find them in successful athletes, esp strong scholars who also serve as captains elected by their teammates.</p>
<p>Some late bloomers will come to HYPS through grad or prof school–after they have already bloomed. </p>
<p>Or they come as freshmen after a stint in the business world or the military or the workplace. When my D was a freshman at H, one of the dorm members was a high school drop out in his 20s and had already founded a successful technology company and sold it. He came to H because it was the only college that he applied to that accepted him.</p>
<p>There may not be as many kids as some seem to think there are achieving at sports and also graduating with high enough grades to consider any reasonably selective school. I don’t know where y’all want to draw the line or where schools would draw it , but I don’t think participation in a varsity sport without something more counts that highly. We all understand that recruited athletes go to the head of the line (along with other most desired groups). But is participation enough? </p>
<p>Let’s take - oh I don’t know, lemmee think - girl’s public high school basketball in Texas as an example (LOL). This past month the Texas Association of Basketball Coaches announced the recipients of their Academic All State awards, only seniors are eligible. In Classes 3A-5A (our 3 largest classes) there were only @ 127 girls honored. Total. The requirements were some level of basketball post season award in their district (above Honorable Mention ) and a GPA above 90 on a 100 point scale. </p>
<p>There are over 670 schools in those 3 classes playing basketball (these figures are an approximation, but they are pretty close). That’s less than 1 senior girl for every 5 schools and those are our largest schools. </p>
<p>I would assume that some schools and some sports do much better than that but still , that’s not a lot of kids and that’s not really setting the bar that high. Move the bar to the GPA required at the highest selectivity level and the number probably falls to …very few indeed. Also, private and parochial schools probably have substantially more athletes meeting a similar criteria - but I think admissions is aware that the pool may be different.</p>
<p>Edit: I use Bball because that’s what I know. BBall awards are not announced until after most schools have sent their acceptance letters. I use BBall because the award requires certification of GPA on a 100 point scale by the school counselor.</p>
<p>At UCB, you get a significant “bump” from sports, even if not recruited, if you have at least THREE things off a list of specific honors in your sport. I forget the whole list but it is things like:</p>
<p>-Captain of team
-1st Team All League
-Division Championship Team</p>
<p>You need three, or there is no bump given.</p>
<p>By the way: another possible reason for the strength of the sports EC is that thanks to Google it can easily be verified. Type the name in to Google and you get all kinds of articles about the sport, the team, the stats, the game scores, etc. Harder to do on lots of other ECs.</p>
<p>Cur, I am not very familiar with the TABC in Texas nor with its rules. Is it possible that one factor is that the hardest part to earn the award is to be able to get the … honorable mention in the district. Isn’t possible that most academically stronger school do not get as much recognition as the athletically stronger teams. Isn’t possible that many students who are well above the academic cutoff are simply not playing for teams favored by the … coaches and that private and small schools are regularly ignored from district recognition?</p>
<p>xig, it has to be above Honorable Mention, maybe 15-20 girls per district on average. With many of those NOT being seniors. The TABC is the largest coaching organization and the 800 lb gorilla as far as rankings go in Texas. Their list carries more weight as opposed to the smaller Texas Girls Coaching Association who have their own list. Their criteria is almost the same.</p>
<p>Private schools have their own TABC list and so do 1A and 2A schools.</p>
<p>As to the difficulty of getting post season awards, I’d say that was a substantial limiting factor in the number of girls considered. You might find it interesting that there is a perfect decline by class in the number of girls receiving the award. 3A has more than 4A who has more than 5A. With the 4A and 5A ranks having more schools than 3A. </p>
<p>Someone may posit a theory that explains that rather strange result. (I’m not going to do it because I don’t necessarily believe that the theory likely to be posited is true ;)).</p>
<p>Parents, I’m currently a junior and I have a question about extracurriculars. At first glance, it might seem as if I’m spreading myself too thin. But actually, I’m extremely dedicated to everything I do. I spend about twice as much time on extracurriculars as I do on academics. Here’s a list of my main ECs:</p>
<p>[ul]
[<em>] Amnesty International: President, State Coordinator
[</em>] Interfaith ambassador
[<em>] Model United Nations: Vice-President, several awards
[</em>] Save Darfur Coalition, volunteer @ DC office
[<em>] Student Alliance for Nuclear Security: Founder, conference coordinator, obtained $1000 grant from the NAPF
[</em>] Plus I have smaller things, such as various honor societies and student councils (Student Advisory Board, Youth Council for teen shelter)
[/ul]</p>
<p>How can I show that I actually dedicate myself to all of these activities? Surely, I can’t write an essay about each of them. I’m just afraid that colleges will view this as just another “laundry list”, especially since I’m working on human rights, nuclear security, and interfaith communication simultaneously. How can I show that I am passionate about all of these issues and that I’m not spreading myself thin?</p>
<p>Savoir, all those ECs seem related to me (sorry, as a Republican I’d label them collectively as “bleeding heart liberal activities”), so I don’t think it looks like you’re all over the place. You have one main EC, doing good. That’s how you should “package” it to the colleges. You’re passionate about helping others and helping make the world a better place, whether by activity X or activity Y. As for spreading yourself too thin, that’s something you can tell – are you able to put in enough meaninigful, quality time into each activity? Are your grades being adversely affected? If you can do all of those activities, have a meaningful role in them, and maintain good grades – you should be in good shape next year.</p>
<p>Er, correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought that Republicans were also highly concerned about nuclear security and the Darfur genocide. And as for interfaith communication… there’s nothing partisan about that. Just connections among church/synagogue/mosque youth groups and what not.</p>
<p>Except for the labeling part, there is much in Burn This’ post that I agree with. The various activities you are engaged in show your interest in being politically involved (not necessarily in a partisan way) and your concern about making connections and engaging in dialog: in other words, making the world a better place. There should be a way for your to tie all these in a single essay rather than focusing on one single activity in individual essays.</p>
<p>Glad to know that humor is dead on this forum. Let’s be as grimly serious and confrontational as possible at all times. Sheesh! But thanks, Marite, for noting that aside from the tongue in cheek ribbing, my post had some good points. Again, if we can get over “doing good” as being such a hot button topic, all your activities fall under the do gooding umbrella, so it doesn’t sound like you’re all over the place or just joining for joining’s sake, but that you’re committed to making the world a better place. Colleges should appreciate that.</p>