<p>Zooser, I don’t know. I think that the Big Law firm (e.g. Dewey) market is not good. The problem I percieve is that with the combination of rents and law school debt, NYC is not viable for recent law grads for anything other than Big Law.</p>
<p>You are so right Kayf. There used to be public interest jobs, government jobs for grads lower down on the food chain. No more. Some of the big firms are “hiring” people as interns and placing then in non-profits, which means that those jobs are closed to other new grads. I can’t tell you how many countless “paralegal esquires” I see. People graduated law school and passed the bar but work as paralegals in order to have permanent jobs. It’s very painful for them.</p>
<p>My D is in year 2 of law school. She recently had over 30 interviews for internships for next summer in Boston and NY. She has had over a dozen callbacks. So far she has 2 offers for paid employment for next summer. Impressive things on her resume (as told to her by recruiters) are her Teach for America experience and the fact that she played a team sport 4 years in college. She is on law review and in the top 11% of her class (missed top 10% by one student) Am I wrong to hope that she might find employment as a laywer after graduation?</p>
<p>I don’t dare send her this thread. I sent her information from CC before she went to law school and she told me to stop sending her that stuff, it stressed her out and she had already made up her mind. Of course now I am the one stressed out! She will have about $70,000 debt (grad and undergrad) when she graduates.</p>
<p>It depends on where she’s located and what connections her law school has in her city. If she has two summer associate offers in hand, she looks to be in good shape because that is the first step to permanent hiring.</p>
<p>My nephew is an attorney; his wife is also an attorney. Both graduated from top law schools in 2004. They’re both working at a hedge fund.</p>
<p>Some of lawyering is ‘information’ brokerage - with the internet, access to that type of know how is at the ready for anyone - albeit a lot of the information is wrong. Do-it-yourself types do without attorneys and tackle the system as pro-se parties, particularly in family work, or in defense of collection/foreclosures - and successful navigation reduces the fees paid to the attorneys. Without a niche practice, or a solid base of clients, it is tough out there for the small to medium size office (3-15 ppl); down turns in the economy hit these practices hard, and drive up the demand to do work by volumne. In larger firms, there is the doc review mill populated by the can-not get a full time job out of work lawyers for $25 per hour, or the outsourcing overseas for other work. </p>
<p>Bottom line, the business model is old-fashioned, based on wage earning, and that model is a tough go in this economy, no matter how skilled the lawyer.</p>
<p>Chicago, I am glad your kids are doing well. Hopefully same for 3, and all here. As I said, I think top 14 schools will do OK. I also think people with Acct/finance UG will do OK.</p>
<p>Maybe the advise on law school needs to be like the advice for MT and vocal performance majors: If you can’t see yourself doing anything else, go for it. If you *have *to do it, then do it.</p>
<p>I agree that graduating without debt is key.</p>
<p>In my law school graudating class, there was exactly one person without a job on graduation day, and she had a job by the time the bar exam was over. Same school, class of 2012, only 20% have jobs as attorneys.</p>
<p>With that said, I think things are picking up. We didn’t have a clerkship program for a few years and this summer we had six clerks…yes, a far cry from when the firm was less than half the size and we had 30. We are hiring right and left but yes, we are getting applicants with terrific resumes and are able to hire some for contract positions.</p>
<p>S is freshman now and wants to be an attorney (human rights or immigration) and is not looking for the 6 figure salary or to move to the big city. We had saved enough so he could go the state flagship debt free and his current merit scholarships will extend his savings to at least 1.5 years into law school. Our state law school is well thought of for regional hiring. That said who knows what the economy or hiring will be like 7 years from now!
He is in a special law program now, and the best part, is that he is being introduced to various aspects and realities of practicing law now, so he can see if that is what he really wants. It’s too bad that programs like this one are not available at all schools so people could see what is involved before they commit to the expense and time for law school. Maybe what we need is a repeat of the Paper Chase movie. That one scared the ____ out of me in HS, completely extinguishing any desire to be an attorney!</p>
<p>“thought that the temp assignment would be a foot in the door for a permanent job. It’s not. It is a scarlet letter and he will never be hired in a larger law firm.”</p>
<p>I don’t doubt that this is your experience, but I have not found it to be true for everyone or everywhere. Once upon a time, contract work was a scarlet letter for a top-school grad. Nowadays, lawyers who can stay busy with contract work do better than those with a period of unemployment on their resumes. Some do get into good firms down the road. I find that firms understand that even the temp work has become highly competitive.</p>
<p>I’m not talking about contract attorneys, hanna, Those people often do just fine, but the straight-up hourly temps who literally review documents in basements. They never make any contacts because they simply don’t mix with the rest of the firm(s). I’ve known quite a few contract attorneys who did good work and eventually were hired permanently as staff attorneys.</p>
<p>Applicants decreased by 14 percent.</p>
<p>I guess 10 schools have announced that they will get get smaller. I realize this isn’t a large percentage of schools. Hastings is cutting enrollment and that school has a good reputation in the bay area.</p>
<p>I guess the market is adjusting. Slowly.</p>
<p>[With</a> Profession Under Stress, Law Schools Cut Admissions - WSJ.com](<a href=“With Profession Under Stress, Law Schools Cut Admissions - WSJ”>With Profession Under Stress, Law Schools Cut Admissions - WSJ)</p>
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<p>From the article that dstark linked. This is the essence of the problem. Schools like Cooley, who will accept virtually anyone with a pulse, and thousands of them!, continue to churn out grads who haven’t a hope of ever having a productive and successful career in the field.</p>
<p>Just found out that the suit against DePaul law school has been dismissed:</p>
<p>[Illinois</a> Judge Tosses Consumer Fraud Suit against DePaul Law - Law Blog - WSJ](<a href=“http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/09/12/illinois-judge-tosses-consumer-fraud-suit-against-depaul-law/?mod=google_news_blog]Illinois”>http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/09/12/illinois-judge-tosses-consumer-fraud-suit-against-depaul-law/?mod=google_news_blog)</p>
<p>The other question here is, what alternative careers do you suggest for someone who is interested in law-ish type positions??? S is minoring in law studies (one of three minors he will have with a teaching degree) just because he really, really likes the subject matter, debate, case study, etc. He does not plan to apply for law school, mostly based on all the feedback he has received/read about careers as a lawyer (as in, DON’T DO IT!!).</p>
<p>Just as in medicine, there are alternatives ( instead of doc become a NP, PA, etc.) what are some alternate occupations that combine some of aspects of law without being a lawyer???</p>
<p>In our state there have been a lot of schools that have started law programs. But firms only hire from the very few established schools with excellent, very competitive programs. Unless you graduate from the top schools, your chance of getting a decent job would be slim.
I personally think law is a great profession but you need to go to a good school and make top grades. There are many specialties with some being more lucrative and recession proof than others.
I’d say that if that is what he’s really interested in then he should do it. So much depends on where you live, your specialties, big firm vs small firm vs private office etc. And how good you are at your job.</p>
<p>“the straight-up hourly temps who literally review documents in basements.”</p>
<p>Yeah, I’m including those. I agree that they don’t get jobs at THAT firm. I just don’t agree that they wear a scarlet letter and no OTHER firms will ever hire them. I’ve seen it happen, not with top 10 firms, but big ones. The folks I’m talking about had good T14 credentials to begin with and fell through the cracks for one reason or another and ended up jobless. The ones in this group who do doc review get better jobs in 9-18 months than the ones who are just unemployed.</p>
<p>One thing to consider–going to law school opens the doors to lots of other professions. Business, investment, consulting, politics. No matter how it turns out, you’ll learn a lot to make your own life easier.</p>
<p>My son just completed his first year at law school after borrowing $55,000. Several of our friends who are attorneys tried to persuade him not to attend. As a 1L student, he was unable to secure a summer internship with any type of salary or stipend. He reluctantly, (after a cost/benefit analysis), decided not to return for his 2nd year. He is now doing temp. work and sending resume’s. While he loved law school and is happy to have gained the knowledge, he is back at square one.</p>
<p>My husband, the attorney, says that unless one goes to an excellent law school AND graduates high in the class…or one has connections in firms or corporations…really don’t go to law school.</p>
<p>While his firm is hiring their requirements are VERY specific. They hired an attorney with six years of experience. Frankly, the guy took a $100,000 salary cut. But he is working. There are so many lawyers who aren’t working. Law school is no longer a backup for the I don’t know what I want to do…It is expensive, work intensive…and no guarantee of employment.</p>
<p>None of my children went to law school…</p>