<p>My D delights in vintage clothes from thrift stores. It is funny because we live in “The OC” and many kids do buy into the designer label thing.
I worry about her fitting in at Muhlenberg next near, as it has a preppy reputation and she is about as far from preppy as one can get. I think it will be okay though, as she will be with other theatre kids who are usually comfortable with free expression in fashion.</p>
<p>“I know poor people who hardly have a pot pee in or a window to throw it out…”</p>
<p>I know some people who are almost that poor (they do have “housing”)… I just wonder why their kids have some of the latest fashions and electronic toys… What gives???</p>
<p>anothermom!!!</p>
<p>I’m from OC too!!! or as I call it…behind the “Orange Curtain”… (I love OC!) I was born at St. Jude’s Hospital in Fullerton. Lived in OC my whole life until I got “transplanted” here for a bit. Can’t wait to be there this summer!!!</p>
<p>If you want, PM me…</p>
<p>JL,</p>
<p>I think that is where the disconnect lies as some people feel it is important to use their conspicious consumption of the latest fashions, cars, etc to as the mask in order to put some distance themselves from the poverty they are living in and show the world that everything is ok. I think this is especially true if there is peer pressure to dress a certain way.</p>
<p>as I wrote in my previous post, you can have anything you want for monthly payments. I remember Chris Rock in his stand up routine talking about people going to “visit” their stuff on lay-away as they were making payments on it :)</p>
<p>I think so much of this is stereotype. As I noted, I live in a middle class town, with incomes higher than the national average, and parental education substantially higher than the national average (we are the state capital.) There is no Urban Outfitters, American Eagle, Banana Republic, Coach, Louis Vuitton, Aeropostale, Abercrombie and Fitch, etc. etc. etc. MIDDLE CLASS kids don’t wear them. Low-income kids can’t buy them. </p>
<p>So I still don’t know - what is a diesel pant? Is it work clothes?</p>
<p>jlauer95 – off topic, but my older son was born at St. Jude’s in Yorba Linda, which is now closed. It was a wonderful hospital and I was sorry to see it go.</p>
<p>I think Diesel is just another brand… dstark, my daughter did choose Columbia, partly because she didn’t feel the “elitist” vibe there even though she knows wealthy kids and prep-school-educated kids (like her, not all wealthy) will attend with her. She’s already made friends with some of them. It’s going to be really interesting for me to watch my own reactions to her experience there.</p>
<p>My boyfriend at Brown majored in alchemy, by the way. I’m not kidding. I don’t think he ever had to actually get a job.</p>
<p>I think the culture of the school and the social group is as important as the kids’ family incomes.</p>
<p>In high school, I often felt uncomfortable, because at my school, it was OK – in fact, expected – to flaunt your wealth. Over-the-top bat mitzvahs, perfect tans all winter, lots of socializing at the chic private health club in the neighborhood, exchanging Vail phone numbers before spring break, etc. In the early '90’s, designer labels were not a big deal (grunge was in), but before that trend, when I was in middle school, they were everywhere.</p>
<p>In college, I’m sure that I met lots of much richer kids, but unless we were such close friends that I visited their homes, I had no idea who had what. There was a small group of exceptions – I knew one kid who kept his own party apartment off-campus in addition to his freshman dorm room – but for the most part, kids like that wanted to hang around with other kids like that, so I never felt any pressure to keep up with their spa treatments or whatever else they did to fling their money around. The nice rich kids who were part of the mainstream culture wore the same sweatpants and ate in the dining hall with everyone else. The extracurricular groups I was close to were very careful about imposing costs on members. When we had cast parties or singing-group tours, the costs were borne by the group, not the members. If we went out to eat, we went to Friendly’s or cheap sushi so that everyone could go. On a couple of special occasions, my filthy-rich friend’s family treated everyone in the group (rich and poor) to a fancy night out at a 4-star restaurant. It would have been unthinkable, in our circle, to even suggest that kind of restaurant unless you were prepared to host everyone.</p>
<p>As I noted, I live in a middle class town, with incomes higher than the national average, and parental education substantially higher than the national average (we are the state capital.
did you see this?
mini since you are looking I believe the westfield mall in Olympia has Aeropostale- American eagle- Gap- Eddie Bauer- Hot topic- Pacific Sunwear & victoria secret- all national chains that are popular with teens also a few others that I am not sure are just local chains or national that have pretty fashiony clothes- Zumiez & Wet Seal ( well not so much Eddie Bauer- that would be their moms)
unless you are looking inside their clothes for the label, you probably wouldn’t know where the kids clothes come from, expecially if you have never heard of diesel footwear- not everyone want to wear the advertising across their chest, but my d for example has found the jeans at american eagle to fit her better than jeans at say old navy.- but they just look like jeans- they dont have AE across her A$$.
I have also found fantastic deals at Gap & Nordstroms- Gap in particular has high cycling of lines, and want to move their stuff quickly, I have gotten brand new things much cheaper at Gap, than at Value village, where you often have to buy what ever is closest enough to what you came for, and is often over priced considering.</p>
<p>I disagree that low income kids can’t buy clothes. I have been working since I was about 14, I paid for much of my clothes ever since I was in about 8th grade, I shopped at jay jacobs and nordstroms, cause that was about the extent of the fashion places, sometimes Jeans West, although they ran way too big and I had to take them in. At Ds inner city high school, it is deriguer to have a short puffy down jacket- often north face or a fleece North face jacket sometimes both- The North Face isn’t cheap, but they are well made and last a long time, kids will work to earn money for what they want.
Im also wondering what you consider middle class , are the Dears middle class? What do the middle class kids wear if they don’t shop at the local chains that carry junior clothing?</p>
<p>But we have very, very few of the high-end ones. (we do have GAP).</p>
<p>We bought d. the puff down thing, which of course really makes no sense with the weather here, but we figured in western Massachusetts… She never wore it - and bought a cheap, thin peacoat which she wears with old sweaters. Go figure.</p>
<p>My younger d. has a huge jeans fit problem. Competitive gymnast - short, no waist, no butt, short legs, HUGE muscular thighs and calves (we’re talking almost body builder here).</p>
<p>I’m so surprised that people worry about ivies being elitest. To me therew is a far bigger worry at the lower level privates that don’t meet financial need and therefore get a lot of wealthy full payers. I also think that ivy kids are more likely to find their self worth in things other than what they wear or where they vacation. Having been a middle class kid at an ivy-like prep school, I can tell you the rich go more out of their way to hide their financial status than the poor do. You have so much respect for anyone on full scholarship because you know they have to be extremely smart or really great at something.</p>
<p>
I think in addition to what Sybbie has said there is something else going on. What, fundamentally speaking, do you think is the reason why people save money in the first place? They save for the future. They are saving for the future because they have enough hope to think about things like a better future. Many poor people get in such masked despair that the future seems to offer them nothing but the same ugly life. So the idea of looking toward it is somewhat ridiculous. It is The Now that they have, and many probably think they may as well enjoy it as best they can because its better to have a little pleasure now, than suffer now for a future in which we will only suffer.</p>
<p>this has been a most interesting topic. i think that in our very small town, most people would think that we are “wealthy” but in our large circle of friends, my kids consider themselves to be “less than wealthy” in comparison. it’s all relative, and the ability to like one’s self for what one is, is the greatest wealth of all. i do have to admit that even though people in our little town probably perceive us as wealthy, my son will probably not be able to “keep up with the joneses’” once he arrives on campus next fall. i remind him to find creative, free ways to entertain himself—and to take advantage of the free movies, free concerts and all the other “cheap” things a college kid can find to do!</p>
<p>suze:</p>
<p>I couldn’t decipher, or maybe I just am totally ignorant of it. What is “therew”?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>instead of studying for my last undergraduate final (woo-hoo!) im going to addess this digresssion by digressing yet futher. </p>
<p>i was born and raised in a truly middle-class community… ~30% of the students on free/reduced lunches and nobody (literally) in my senior class got a new car for turning 16.</p>
<p>yet MANY people wore aeropostale, american eagle and abercrombie. why? these three brands are marketed DIRECTLY at middle class teenagers (aero at the lower middle class, ae in the middle, abercrombie a bit higher). the prices are set such that theyre luxury goods for these demographics, which fuels the demand (it helps that the stuff is COVERED in logos). kids ask for it for their birthdays and holidays, buy it with the money from their part time jobs, et cetera. the middle income kids are not wearing it head to toe… theyre buying the more affordable tshirts and getting a hoodie for christmas. the ‘cool’ kids with money get the polos and sweaters and jeans. money or not, its definitely whats cool in middle america. </p>
<p>in contrast, youre correct that more expensive labels and stores arent on the middle class radar. a couple of the ‘rich’ girls in my graduating class had the $40 coach change purses. one girl actually had a bag. only the ‘rich’ guys had anything more than a tshirt from abercrombie. and a vast majority had never heard of, let alone shopped at, a banana republic, jcrew, urban outfitters, et cetera. in short, the pricepoints at the stores are well out of reach of most of the ‘rich’ kids and quite different than aeropostales, where you can get a pair of jeans for $20.</p>
<p>by the way, you can get your diesel clothing at urban outfitters, with their handcrafted italian-made jeans starting at only $149. its a jeans company that makes a bit of everything… plays off of a hip, urban, european aesthetic. </p>
<p>i think the big difference with preppy college ‘style’ is that its not quite as logo-driven (though it is label driven). crocodiles and polo players, for sure. but what else thats not a purse or pair of sneakers? north face, i guess. but jcrew is logo-free… and as such would never fly at my high school. consequently, you can get away with that $10 polo or a faded tshirt… theres no logo to tell anyone its not cool.</p>
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<p>I certainly worried about the ivies being elitist before I actually had some experience with people attending an ivy. I can’t speak for Y or P, but H doesn’t seem elitist.</p>
<p>I am also thinking that we may ( or may not) have the same attitudes about money as our parents, even though we may have different circumstances.
This was true for my grandparents- they lived through the depression in small farming communities and never borrowed any money( working as a cashier and a pipefitter), even paid cash for their home in the same community Ronald Reagans son lives in.
They lived very frugally, but were able to put hundreds of thousands of dollars away.</p>
<p>However, they apparently didnt’ pass on the same views to my mother, who has almost spent all the money her parents left her 10 years ago, quitting her job as soon as they died, going on big vacations, and buying lots of clothes and new cars helped.</p>
<p>We weren’t taught a lot about money growing up, I know some kids who had small stock portfolios by the time they graduated college, but others ( like me) who knew nothing about it.
My brother will borrow money to buy stock- something that I don’t understand, and I am still trying to educate my self re: finances, since my H isn’t interested in it at all.</p>
<p>I agree with drosselmeier that those who don’t know what their circumstances will be like next year, may get fixated into short term gains, afraid money will burn a hole in their pocket if they don’t spend it while they have it.
If you can only afford to put a little away, it seems to grow very slowly, and then when a crisis comes, it is gone in a flash.
Its worse of course, to not even have that money to call on in a crisis- because * then* what do you do?</p>
<p>to try and get back on topic, one thing my kids have learned, that in terms of “rich” and " Poor" - circumstances can change rapidly.
While we live in a small house, and have few expenses, because we knew our income was not always going to be stable, we have had a pretty consistent lifestyle. But we know others, who either moved up big with the dot.com boom, and because of divorce or folding of companies, are now having to drastically change their spending.</p>
<p>That is pretty hard on families, who may first feel that they “earned” their big paychecks, and deserved to buy lots of goodies, whether they needed them or not, but now may feel they are being punished, because their wages can’t keep up with their payments.</p>
<p>Its pretty pathetic, in some of the things I have seen, they live off their credit cards for a while, spending the same as they always have because they think it will “pick up”- but then it doesn’t and they have these huge payments- have to even sell their cars, or move to a smaller house.
But actually while they make a particulary vivid warning, most families I know, are pretty good about their money, not driving Hummers or dropping $2,000 at Nordstroms in a single trip.</p>
<p>With many families becoming much more aware that education is the thing that can never be taken away, more blue collar families like ours are encouraging their kids to attend college, so I expect that there are really more students out there of modest means, than there was maybe 30 years ago.
At our states flagship university- 25% of students receive Pell Grants- quite a large number considering we are an expensive state, and the income cap for Pell is pretty low.
<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/2002983812_pell10m.html[/url]”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/2002983812_pell10m.html</a></p>
<p>This is very interesting to me. Amongst my friends, it’s “cool” or accepted to be as cheap as possible. Free t-shirts for filling out surveys, crashing lectures for free food, etc. None of us flaunt whatever wealth we may or may not have at all. And it seems like most of the people at my school do the same thing.</p>
<p>Diesel Jeans – Italian Jeans about $150 and up</p>
<p>True Relgion Jeans – LA company about $250 and up</p>