What if we threw out all the illegal immigrants?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Maybe, just maybe, before talking about immigrants “stealing” jobs of people on welfare, someone ought to look at the pockets of unemployment in this country and matching that with the jobs that are and HAVE been available for a long time. </p>

<p>Do we really believe that employers would not love to hire legal employees, especially if the hiring comes with a couple of support elements or grants? Have you heard the plights of construction and agriculture companies that are unable to find labor, especially labor with a minimum of qualifications? </p>

<p>At the risk of citing anecdotes, do you have any idea who the laborers are that are rebuilding New Orleans? It seems that jobs would only have been available to locals who stayed and locals who decided to return … home. Yet, take a drive around the construction site, and look at the workers. The immigration officers would spend months rounding up all the undocumented workers on the job sites. Are the local contractors not interested in local labor? Or are there other elements at work here? </p>

<p>Similar examples abound in Colorado where the construction of hotels, condos, schools, and hospitals is hampered by the lack of workers. Employers DO spend a fortune trying to move workers from Mexico LEGALLY, but it’s not working very well. Same stories at dairy farms throughout the country. </p>

<p>No matter how bitter a taste it leaves in many mouths, the “illegal aliens” are mostly here because they are needed. Just as we have grown addicted to cheap imports of China, cheap oil from abroad, our commercial interests are desperately linked to the availability of a cheap and subservient labor force that has to accept living and working conditions our welfare babies would never consider. Our excuse that they only know worse conditions at home is hardly becoming of the richest country in the world.</p>

<p>Fwiw, one of the worst scenarios for the United States would be to lose a large portion of the illegal workforce. We love to claim that a stronger economy in Mexico would eliminate the illegal immigration, but we almost never consider that the best workers will be the first to return home if jobs open in reengineered fields such as energy. At the time when we need every worker in the US helping extracting oil, the lure of good wages in Mexico would further increase our costs at the pump. Have we thought about the impact of a $/bbl 150 to 200 in Mexico if the prices would stay this high for a decade? The much maligned country to our South is rich in many things we could use: natural resources and a young and hard working population. An aging population and rapidly increasing commodities is hardly a recipe for boom times. </p>

<p>Yes, kicking them out would feel good for a little bit of time. And then, we’d realize that those “people” really did not cause the financial collapse of our schools and hospitals, did not cause our real estate values to plummet, did not cause our food proces to skyrocket, and many other calamities our crisis causes us to place onto the shoulders of tiny scapegoats.</p>

<p>NOBODY likes the impact of illegal immigration as the mere concept offends our moral fabric. We consider ourselves the moral barometer of the planet and we are deeply offended by people who come here and violate our laws. </p>

<p>However, we should also be able to understand that the alternatives could be a lot more costly to our economy and to our individual wallets. </p>

<p>We ought to be careful with what we wish for!</p>

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<p>The problem with building an economy on bubbles is that you need to grow lending exponentially or you risk a collapse. We’re part of the way there with about $5+ trillion up in smoke from the housing and stock markets. It is easy to use scare tactics to talk about what we may lose but should we have had them in the first place? Should we have the cheap imports from China? Are they beneficial in the long run?</p>

<p>If we have labor shortages, then increase the legal immigration process but allow the cities, towns and states to absorb the numbers at a rate that they can handle.</p>

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<p>Yesterday, as I sat at the light on the I-10 feeder in the Spring Branch area, a panhandler was practically pressing his Anglo, forty-something face against my window demanding a ‘donation’ from me; while across the street, a half dozen Hispanic men were digging trenches prepping for construction of another chain hotel. A few exits down, a dozen more Hispanic guys doing the most menial of work on the new I-10/Post Oak intersection. Were these Hispanics legal? I don’t know. Given the ease with which fraudulent credentials can be obtained, I doubt even their employers know. But I do know there are jobs that Americans refuse to do. Anyone who thinks we can just remove the illegal population and put our citizens on welfare in their place in the workforce is fooling themselves.</p>

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<p>The pan-handler may make more from pan-handling than he would from gainful employment.</p>

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<p>We have an over abundance of illegal immigrants in this country for one reason. Government and the business community want to keep working class wages low. The best example being wages in the construction industry they have been going lower for the last 25 years rather than rising with inflation.You cant export certain service industry jobs overseas to India or China. The solution our leaders have come up with is to import the third world to do the jobs that they cant export to the third world.</p>

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<p>I think illegals should be deported - they knowingly broke the law. Practically speaking, there’s no way all of them could possibly be deported at once and in the meantime swarms more are still coming across the border. It’d be a bit like bailing a boat with a hole in it - it’s hard to just keep it from getting worse. Stop bailing though, and it’ll sink. </p>

<p>Also speaking practically, I think there’s a good symbiosis to take advantage of with the USA being the economic powerhouse and rich country it is and other nearby countries with third world economies and with a large population of people willing to work but who don’t find the opportunities in their own country. Although I think we should not allow ‘illegals’ we should revamp our guest worker laws to take advantage of this symbiosis. I say symbiosis because it can be a win-win situation benefiting both sides. This guest worker program needs to be realistic and allow an adequate number of workers in yet not cost Americans dearly who might otherwise perform those jobs. This is nothing new - guest worker programs have been in place for decades but it may no longer be aligned/scaled properly. For example, the USA would have had a more difficult time during WWII had there not been a program whereby large numbers of Mexican guest workers came in to work in the fields and elsewhere while so many Americans were off fighting in the war. </p>

<p>When these guest workers are here legally, America gets the additional workforce in segments where they’re needed, the workers don’t need to live ‘under the radar’, workers/employers will pay appropriate taxes, employers will need to conform to a level of standards that don’t take advantage of the workers (housing, salary, medical insurance), etc. When these guest workers go back home they may bring with them new skills and ideas that can benefit their home country. </p>

<p>If doing it right, i.e. legally, costs some of us an additional ten cents for a head of lettuce or a bit more for construction and other costs so beit.</p>

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<p>I agree with xiggi and ldmom, although I would add that I think employer stereotyping plays a role, just as Americans’ unwillingness plays a role. One of the reasons immigrants find jobs easily is that middle-class white Americans (i.e., employers) make assumptions about them that we don’t necessarily make about people born here. Would we hire unemployed young black men to work in our backyards the way we hire middle-aged Mexican immigrants? To say nothing of housecleaning, renovation, and nanny jobs where we hand over our house keys? What about accepting them as waitstaff and handing over our credit cards? Some of us would…but not everyone.</p>

<p>In my sister’s neighborhood in Brooklyn Heights, the nannies are all black, but they are from the Caribbean, not Brooklyn. It’s a complicated picture. There’s no way to know for sure, but I bet that some of those moms are a lot more comfortable hiring a Trinidadian immigrant than an African-American Brooklynite with the same skin tone.</p>

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<p>Bravo, Xiggi. Well written.</p>

<p>But one question. Why did you put the word people in “quotes?” Just curious.</p>

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<p>" it would be nice to substitute the illegal immegrants with those languishing on welfare. "</p>

<p>It would also be nice if they had the work-ethic to replace them. But alas.</p>

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<p>In the Boston area, there is a community of young women from the Caribbean who work as nannies and put themselves through college with their earnings. One of my neighbors hired a nanny by putting up ads in the Mattapan area.</p>

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<p>Agree with you ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad. We can work this out, but any movement off of the “deport all illegals” position isn’t going to get much traction until after the election.</p>

<p>I was around for the last amnesty in 1984 (I think it was, during the Reagan years). I would be interested to know how those people turned out once their immigration status was solidified.</p>

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<p>“No matter how bitter a taste it leaves in many mouths, the “illegal aliens” are mostly here because they are needed.”</p>

<p>They are mostly here because they were kicked off their land in southern Mexico and Guatemala as a result of NAFTA. The slow trickle of undocumented immigration in the late 80s/early 90s became a tidal wave after Al Gore got his way. For most of these folks, it wasn’t DESIRABLE to come to the U.S. before then. </p>

<p>As to what happened after the last amnesty? We have entire flourishing communities of Hispanics descended from formerly migrant farmworkers, building homes and business, and sending their kids to college.</p>

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<p>Because I wanted to put some emphasis that they are people above all; something I feel is often overlooked as debaters explore philosophical differences. Cosmopolitans and hardliners alike tend to change their tone when they talk about Peggy Sue, LaShonda, or … Juanita. However, in general, discussions seem to relate monolithic and faceless blocks of world citizens, and not families and individuals. </p>

<p>I apologize if my quotations might have been construed as a derogatory comment.</p>

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<p>UCSD, the only solution is indeed based on finding the right symbiosis. You are 100% correct that we have had successful guest worker programs such as the Bracero Program from 1942 to 1964. However, the success might be measured differently by Mexican politicians, plantation owners, the United States, or the poor farmers who traveled thousands of miles to the United States. </p>

<p>In addition to the economic benefits, the United States also believes in its right to swell or restrict the “pipeline” at will and whimsically. Unfortunately, people (that word again) do not act or react like commodities. They establish roots and do … procreate. As we know, this results in the rather unfortunate situation of guest workers being the parents of US citizens. </p>

<p>You could also track back to 1965 when our politicians created the problem of illegal aliens almost overnight by amending the quotas rules. Migrants who had peacefully entered AND left the United States found themselves in a legal limbo, or actually an “illegal” limbo. </p>

<p>The rest is history!</p>

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<p>We don’t just belive that to be false, we know it to be false. Many employers gain substantial benefits from hiring illegal workers. Lower hourly rates, not benefits, insurance, etc. Oh yes. Many employers love it.</p>

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<p>Talk to anyone who has lived in California - they are absolutely shocked when they move to another state and pay much more for construction, lawn and housekeeping services than they did in California!</p>

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<p>^^ Maybe that’s why Mitt Romney bought a house in CA. After it was pointed out that his MA gardeners were illegals. ;)</p>

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<p>LOL Marite!</p>

<p>Here, there are a lot of illegal Brazilians who clean houses. They make a LOT of money, and uncle Sam isn’t seeing a penny of it.</p>

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<p>Some have set-up a successful business.</p>

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<p>What I haven’t heard in the media are these people telling their stories in support of another amnesty bill. But politically, any talk of amnesty (or whatever name it goes by since amnesty is the A word) by a politician is the kiss of death in this political climate.</p>