<p>No doubt WASP do, in fact, offer a better undergraduate education for most of their matriculants than Harvard. Otherwise, the comparison is apples v. oranges, as the “Harvard” concept encompasses top-notch professional schools, graduate programs, etc.</p>
<p>“Particularly if the school chosen is dissimilar in some profound way, as in women only.”</p>
<p>Being women-only played virtually no role whatsoever in my d. turning down Williams for Smith. Specific course offerings, research opportunities in the humanities in the first two years, study abroad offerings, and depth of curriculum “in those things in which she was particularly interested” clearly indicated Williams’ inferiority. Does it mean “the school was inferior”? Not at all. But different. Like all schools, Williams has strengths and weaknesses. (For astronomy, astrophysics, art history, and history, there is no question in my mind that Williams is superior - and for the same reasons.)</p>
<p>You have to kick the tires, and know what you want in a car.</p>
<p>Hi, I’m an international student from singapore, and is trying to decide between williams or amherst to apply to for early decision.</p>
<p>I’m a science student and probably would continue to do science, specifically biology, or turn to psychology/neuroscience in college. Therefore I’d prefer a college with a better course in these areas.</p>
<p>Aside from academics, I’m more inclined towards arts and music as opposed to sports, and I play some obscure traditional asian instruments which I’d like to continue.[and which I’d probably have to find a way to ship it over, it’s almost my size and pretty delicate.]</p>
<p>Things that matter more to me are good facilities, pretty dorm & school, good library, and speedy internet access. Having access to a thriving art/music scene such as being able to go for good concerts/exhibitions are great too. good food is also of concern, though if dorm provides easy access to cooking facilities I’m fine too.</p>
<p>Things that matter less to me are shopping, general recreation such as movies and partying, large social scene etc. I don’t play sports so sports is of little concern for me anyway, with exception of swimming, though. </p>
<p>Also, since I’m an international student, it would help greatly if anyone knows about any differences in policies of the two schools regarding international student. i.e. admission rates, financial assistance [I’m aware that amherst has done away with the loan], working opportunities, staying in school over the vacations, allowances given for return airfare, student diversity, & etc.</p>
<p>thanks a lot.</p>
<p>Williams also did away with loans, but I can’t give you admissions stats for either. I know Williams greatly values the arts, and puts a lot of resources into them. Amherst, on the other hand, is located in a thriving college community. I have seen a number of my favorite musicians at venues in Amherst and Northampton. I think that Amherst financial aid takes into consideration one return flight home for international students each year - I don’t know about Williams.</p>
<p>There are a number of Singaporeans at Amherst (probably at Williams, too). Perhaps the admissions office could get you in touch with them.</p>
<p>Science programs at both Williams and Amherst are very strong. Any differences are probably marginal. I don’t know about Amhert’s programs, but I can also tell you that Williams’ math and psychology departments are amazing.</p>
<p>As for dorms, you probably can’t go wrong with Williams. Although there will always be naysayers and people who just aren’t content with what they have, I can say from experience that Williams dorms are downright amazing. The quality of the buildings are generally very high, and at very few schools will you be able to have a majority of freshmen living in singles and the VAST majority of upperclassmen in singles. Cooking in dorms is hit or miss, though. Some dorms have decent cooking facilities whereas some have none at all.</p>
<p>The Schow Science Library is great. It was finished in about 2002, so it’s very modern and sleek. The humanities library, however, is slated to be razed in a few years to make way for a new humanities library complex. The current structure, Sawyer, isn’t exactly the nicest building in the world, but it works. And high-speed internet access shouldn’t be an issue for you. Most colleges in the U.S., including Williams and Amherst, have great wireless capabilities. You can pick up a signal nearly anywhere on campus at Williams.</p>
<p>Williams also surprisingly has a vibrant arts and music scene. The Tanglewood music festival is close by, which happens during the summer. Every summer, there’s also a theater festival and a film festival in town. During the school year, there’s plenty of music/arts events going on all the time, whether they be held by faculty or local professionals/artists. Also keep in mind that there are three fantastic museums nearby. The Williams College Museum of Art (WCMA) is on campus. The Clark Museum of Art is about a mile or two away. And Mass MOCA (modern art) is a few miles away.</p>
<p>Williams and Amherst are similar in many respects - so for an international student from Singapore, you’ll probably value some things more than others. Since most intls don’t get to visit, you have to make a decision from the online and paper information you have, but that’s usually sufficient. </p>
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<p>Williams’ intl admission rate is always below 10%, and I’m sure Amherst’s is pretty close. Admission is quite competitive and it gets more so every year, as the fame of these colleges spread. At Williams, about 90 intls are admitted [I’m guessing this is the annual average, but I’m not sure what the percentages are for ED and RD], and about 40 - 50 kids enrol. I’m not sure how important this is to you, but I only personally know of one Singaporean here, but there are a handful of other Asian students who attended the same high school in Singapore. </p>
<p>Williams does sponsor a return flight home for every year of your stay IF you’re on financial aid. Williams also has a no-loan policy. There are plenty of job opportunities on campus - you can be a TA, resource center tutor, office assistant, research assistant, dining hall employee, switchboard operator, or whatever. Over the summer, you could get a research position in science [a very popular option] or participate in the Williams Instructional Technology program facilitated by the OIT, work at the museum, work for a professor, library, Hopkins Forest, or whatever…if you have a summer job, you can stay on campus the whole summer. So you can basically stay on campus the whole year except for Winter Break, when everyone has to leave. But last year, I think a small dorm was opened for a number of students who had nowhere to go and had no alternatives. In short, you’ll always be fine.</p>
<p>Amherst definitely has more international students than Williams does, but Williams is catching up, but keep in mind that it’s probably never going to exceed 10% at both schools.</p>
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<p>Don’t worry - you’ll always find a place for your music. It’s also important to note that there really isn’t much of a conflict between the arts and sports, or other such combinations. You might find your “hard-core” athletic friends running of to daily practice one minute, and then heading to the music building the next. Quite a lot of students are involved in diverse areas of campus life. Williams has a super-solid music scene, though. </p>
<p>
Speedy internet access, in my opinion, is generally a given on a US college campus. I’m not sure about “pretty dorms” but I’m sure you’ll be fine as long as you’re comfortable. In popular opinion, Amherst has better dorms, while Williams has better food. But Williams dorms are great, too. Amherst has only one dining hall while Williams has 4 (5, if you count Whitman’s at the student center, as well as extra-dining hall options - Eco Cafe, Grab ‘n’ Go, and Snack Bar). Many Jeffs have complimented Williams for the quality of its food.</p>
<p>Both schools definitely have great facilities. Amherst has an unbelievable number of tennis courts. Construction has been going on at Williams since the late nineties. The '66 Center for Theater and Dance, the Morley Science Center/Schow Library and the Paresky Center are some of the recent projects. '66 CTD is an elegant structure, and the Schow Center is superb. I’m not quite sure of Paresky.</p>
<p>The North and South Academic Buildings have just been completed and will be open this fall. They are simply gorgeous and besides creating better and more office space for humanities and arts professors, they boast an archaeology lab, a language lab, and more. Sawyer is going to be razed and a new library will be added to the great Stetson Hall. Compare this with what you have in your viewbook: [Site</a> upon completion of project](<a href=“Stetson-Sawyer Building Project, Williams College”>Stetson-Sawyer Building Project, Williams College)</p>
<p>And I agree with crnchycereal on the dorms, except that I’m pretty sure most (if not all) dorms have kitchen facilities, except the frosh quad and maybe Lehman, which used to be first-year housing.</p>
<p>reika, I think the Williams’ students have given you a good appraisal, but I would add, in my opinion, for someone with an interest in art and music, Williams wins hands down. Even if you don’t intend to major in music, the performance opportunities are ample. And for art and art history, it’s one of the best in the country.</p>
<p>Dual majors or at least dual interests that combine the arts and the sciences are quite common.</p>
<p>I’d also suggest that you take a look at Wesleyan.</p>
<p>thank you very much, everyone!</p>
<p>From the looks of it, the two school are almost identical to eachother, with possibly small variations here and there. though eventually it’ll come down to who’s willing to take me, but I guess I’ll pretty much come to love the school no matter which one I get in in the end. </p>
<p>By the way, one more question on admission. What’s the general policy for the schools on sending in arts supplements? How good do I need to be to send in the supplements? need I be diploma standard/ winning national competitions for music? what about art?</p>
<p>Williams alone wins for arts and music - but the 5-college resources are tremendous. I agree the Amherst dining hall is awful (I haven’t eaten at Williams) but the food in Amherst the town (and Northampton) is wonderful - I didn’t feel that way in Williamstown.</p>
<p>hmmm yes I’m thinking about the 5 college thing too. How great is the system anyway? Does it impart a lot of solid advantages? If not for the system I might have gone for williams straight, but the prospect of getting pooled resource from 5 colleges is quite attractive…</p>
<p>I don’t think sending in an arts supplement ever hurts. The admissions people send all the arts supplements over to the music department, and the music department returns them a list of the top few, who get some minor boost in the admissions process. Everyone else is just considered normally, so there’s no penalty for giving it a try.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, I submitted a music supplement with all my applications, and heard firsthand (from the music people who called and emailed to try to get me to come to their schools) that it gave me a boost at Amherst and Middlebury. I’m not sure if it helped at Williams since no one ever contacted me about it - Williams overall does much less to reach out to admitted students - but I would imagine the standards are similar. For reference, I was an all-state level player (maybe nationally the 200th best player of my instrument in my year, to make a completely wild guess), but certainly not a virtuoso. </p>
<p>Music at Williams is good in some ways and bad in others. There are occasionally decent concerts (depending on what you like), but if you want an exciting local music scene Amherst is definitely the better bet. Anyway, I wouldn’t worry too much about the differences until you know you’ve gotten into both - there’s a decent chance your decision will be made for you.</p>
<p>It’s probably going to come down to them picking me anyway. Though I’d still like to choose one that I might like better for early decision…</p>
<p>Actually since I’ve not gone for any sort of competitions, i’ve no idea what’s my standing for music, not even remotely actually. Same with art. Though I’d say that art competitions probably don’t assess one’s standing much anyway. But if it doesn’t hurt to send in provided that I don’t play/draw bad enough to irritate the professional ear/eye…</p>
<p>Reika, the Economist is actually running a nice series on art in Williamstown this week:</p>
<p>[Art</a> in the Berkshires | An outsider in the galleries | Economist.com](<a href=“An outsider in the galleries”>An outsider in the galleries)</p>
<p>A few other good links on art / music / theater in the area are posted below. As you can see, despite being in a rural area, there is no shortage of high-caliber art/music/theater based events on or around campus (plus of course there are several major student-sponsored concerts each year, and tons of student theater and musical performances, and the student film society which can utilize the new movie theater in Paresky basement …):</p>
<p>[Williamstown</a> Jazz Festival](<a href=“http://www.williamstownjazz.com/]Williamstown”>http://www.williamstownjazz.com/)</p>
<p>[Williamstown</a> Film Festival](<a href=“http://www.williamstownfilmfest.com/]Williamstown”>http://www.williamstownfilmfest.com/)</p>
<p>[MASS</a> MoCA - Performing Arts](<a href=“http://www.massmoca.org/search_results.php?st=2&search=30]MASS”>http://www.massmoca.org/search_results.php?st=2&search=30)</p>
<p>['62</a> Center](<a href=“http://62center.williams.edu/62center/]'62”>http://62center.williams.edu/62center/)</p>
<p>In terms of international students, from the Williams and Amherst college Common Data Sets for the last academic year (2007-8): at Amherst there were 120 (7.1%) “non-resident aliens” out of 1683 total students, with 37 first-year international students of 474 (7.8%). For Williams, the numbers were 132 international of 1962 total (6.7% overall), but 47 first-year internationals of 540 (8.7%). It appears that the Williams administration has decided to increase the numbers/percentage of international students on campus going forward.</p>
<p>LOL It figures that this thread has so many replies.</p>
<p>hmmm I’ll just let all these sit in my mind till around october then, lol, both seem to have things about them that I really like.</p>