<p>“Notre Dame is second rate ivy. But I do not mean that in such a way that its derogatory. For that price tag I would rather try harder to get into an older academic powerhouse like Yale or Princeton. And saying that Cal Tech, Stanford and MIT are second rate ivies is spurious. They are sometimes ahead of the ivies in all respects and are sometimes called “ivy plus” not “second rate ivy”. There is a difference. Those schools stand on their own academic feet while schools like Vandy, Rice, Emory, Wash U and Notre Dame are known for mimicking the ivy trends in order to bring that atmosphere into the south and the midwest. There is nothing wrong with that but they all still have a lot to prove to get to I guess an ivy plus category like MIT. Duke has done it and Vanderbilt is my next pick for following in that direction. Gee is doing a great job making sure that it will happen.”</p>
<p>Can you not read Ruben? I said that Caltech, MIT etc were above the Ivys in some respects and certainly above the lower tier ivys. Good lord, read before you post…</p>
<p>Again, Notre Dame is not some second rate Ivy, while plenty of people turn down Ivys to go to ND because of its atmosphere, I have yet to meet a person turn down an Ivy to go to Vanderbilt.</p>