<p>The propane company that I work for is starting to set a lot of propane tanks specifically for backup generators. We schedule a free site inspection to determine the location of the tank and what supplies we need to connect it to the generator. Our customers will typically have 100 to 200 hours of propane on hand should they need it in an emergency. Plus we will either call them to check what they have left in the tank, or send a delivery truck over to their house first thing in the morning.</p>
<p>I would also add, don’t do the typical thing of planning for the problem we already had. Prepare for the next big storm, which could happen in January (mid winter) rather than October. Instead of sitting uncomfortably in the dark with food spoiling in the fridge people could be freezing to death.</p>
<p>TonyK, we have a propane tank attached to a fireplace insert. Could we also run the tank to a generator or would it need a dedicated tank? If we are renting the tank from the propane company, will they insist on hooking up the generator or can I get my own gas guy to do it?</p>
<p>Trying to figure out how this works in an earthquake with not notice. Our house has a generater hook up build in the garage. We go back and forth about buying a portable because we have no where other than the garage to store the fuel and that seems unsafe. If we were to get one built on a slab and the propane --would the slab stay during an earthquake? Also we have a steep hill that it would need to be built on… I might call and at least get the information.
The other way for the not yet elderly to approach this is heavy duty backpacking equipment and am researching that now.
Glad to have this psot.</p>
<p>Oregon, we live in WA, so we are in a somewhat similar situation. Here is what we did. We have a generator panel in the garage and a portable generator. Since the climate in our area (and in yours, I assume) is relatively mild, it is very unlikely that we will need to heat our house for prolonged periods of time in the case of a power outage, so we calculated that we only needed several standard cans of gasoline to keep us through the worst of it. We bought a portable Honda generator and several red fuel cans that Mr B fills with gas every fall. They are stored in a locked shed in our backyard, and in the spring, when the probablity of power outages due to a powerful storm goes to 0, and the grass begins to grow, well, like grass, we use the gasoline from the cans to fuel our lawn mover. And then we repeat the process. We decided that if we could live for 6 December days without power prior to getting the portable generator, we could live without spending $5-7K on a standby one.</p>
<p>Our family is pretty self-sufficient … large supplies of firewood and candles and patience. But the freak snowstorm last October caused such wide-spread damage that we bought a gasoline-powered 6600-watt portable generator. Power was out for a week. A month later Hurricane Irene hit … another week without power.</p>
<p>You can do a lot with a 6600-watt portable, but you do have to think about which appliances are running. The bigger issue is safety. Lots of gasoline laying around, lots of extension cords, making sure you’re using appropriate places to tie into house circuitry. (If you plug into a circuit and the breaker trips, what does THAT mean?)</p>
<p>Unless $$$ is really a problem, I agree with those who suggest a professional standby installation. The portable works for us, but it’s stop-gap rather than “the solution.”</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your experience and recommendations. I hope others also find this helpful.</p>
<p>To give another point of reference, a neighbor has a home about the same size as your parents and have a 20K standby generator which is considered entry level for whole house. They can use any of their appliances in addition to either heat or central air and the fridge - they just can’t use everything at the same time the way they are used to with three children at home. Theirs was about $10K installed. To be able to power absolutely everything at once you are looking at something larger in both wattage and physical size - those get more expensive, in the mid - high teens and higher installed. If all they want is fridge and heat or AC, plus water heater, plus a few lights, they could make do with a much smaller one. </p>
<p>You can estimate the size you need with one of the online calculators. Here’s one:</p>
<p>[Kohler</a> Power: Sizing Calculator: Solutions: Residential Home Generators](<a href=“Generator Selector | Kohler Power”>http://kohlerpower.com/residential/solutions/sizingcalculator.htm?sectionNumber=13561&nodeNumber=1&contentNumber=103)</p>
<p>Reading this thread has made me VERY nervous for the safety of some of you folks and your neighborhoods. I suspect that our neighbors who had the fireball explosion and subsequent large fire were storing gasoline or similar combustible in cans or other containers but NOT in an official, appropriate set up. It is a serious fire and safety hazard to have fuel that is not appropriately stored and can end up causing a great deal of damage. Please consider consulting one or more professionals to see about having proper storage for fuel and installing the generator properly so you’re not running lots of extension cords all over the place–trip & fire hazards.</p>
<p>^^And that’s why I am a huge fan of a professionally installed generator panel/transfer switch where a portable generator can be plugged in without the need of running multiple extension cords.</p>
<p>In cases of generators, having a set up that is not professionally done can definitely put the entire community at risk, not only the homeowner who chooses to “economize.” It is false economy to do something that puts MANY around you at risk. This is one area where not meeting professional standards can impose huge risks and could likely invalidate your insurance.</p>
<p>The problem with a standby generator is that we could easily lose our gas lines in an earthquake. That means having a propane tank also.
We have decided that we do not want to store gas. We have nowhere to store it except the garage. If we figured out how to build a shed away from the house on our hill the shed would be in direct sunlight (when we do have sun:)).
We also believe that any house could be unsafe until the aftershocks and this could be a few days. We would be in a tent for that time. We are near a major fault line and the area is all hills.
I have finally landed on a MR Heater. We could get a very small one that is meant for small inside spaces with back up canisters of propane and buy a larger one and a larger portable propane tank for inside the house.
So this is my new focus and am currently reseaching. And won’t forget the carbon monoxide detector for the tent (house has many already).
Oldfort–hope we have not taken over your post. Your parent will be thrilled with a standby and if we were not concerned about losing our gas line we would do the same. I think that when we move in a few years that we will put one in then and also a propane backup.</p>
<p>We have a whole house generator.Runs off of natural gas.Maintenance is easy. Company comes and changes oil and checks batteries every fall.It also self checks each week and if anything is wrong light will flash on in basement.Had a gas one and had house wired for it so no need for extension cords.Would not recommend for elderly.Have well water so not having electricity also means no water ,which I think is worse.Husband didn’t start portable generator every month to check it and wouldn’t you know we had that ice storm and it would not work.Got stand alone one right after that and it is worth the money.</p>
<p>HImom, doesn’t everybody store gas in their garage? For the lawn mower? I don’t know of a single house in this neighborhood that doesn’t have a gas can in their garage. I’m assuming everyone is using a normal standard gas storage can and not throwing gas in say a Tupperware container.</p>
<p>People probably do store gas in the garage…a proper gas can is not going to be a problem, assuming it is properly sealed, but once you get into the amount of gas people will bring in in case of a storm (20 gallons or more) it can be problem, then, too, people will refill the generator in the garage, spill gas, and the vapors are nasty. Gasoline is one of the most explosive substances around, but if handled properly is safe (hell, you have a car parked in the garage, with anywhere from 10-20 gallons or more in it…). </p>
<p>For parents who are getting older, I would seriously recommend getting a permanent backup generator. Yes, you can hook up a portable generator to a transfer switch, have a big cable from it to the generator and if the power goes you throw the switch (which isolates house power from the lines going out) and start it. Problem is, that generator also needs filling (depending on the wattage and the size of the tank, is usually 6-8 hours depending on load IME), which means going outside… The other thing about portable generators most of them are really noisy as heck, it is like the neighbor with the annoying lawn mower going all the time. </p>
<p>I would not recommend a whole house generator, probably a 5000 square foot house is wired for 200 amp service (roughly 20kw), but in an emergency they probably don’t need that. Heat, refrigeration/freezer (if two separate things), maybe some circuits for lighting, or a/c (I would recommend having small window units as back up rather then trying to run a central A/C), maybe power if the stove has electric ignition, pumps (sump, water if well)…generally for emergency only circuits given what you said, it probably would take somewhere around a 5kw -10kw unit or so. Friend of mine just had a 10kw unit installed down in the Philly area I think it was around 6k. There are several different ways you can do a generator:</p>
<p>1)Whole house, has roughly 20kw or more, wires into the panel, is there for anything you need. I kind of find that overkill, unless you routinely deal with power outages and have a big family. </p>
<p>2)Semi whole house, you basically wire the whole panel into the generator but it doesn’t have full capacity (i.e instead of 20kw, 10kw). If your total usage starts approaching that level it will cut out until you turn off load. Advantage of this is it is flexible, so if you for example have an a/c window unit going you can, as long as other power hogs (like a portable space heater) are turned out. No extension chords needed, don’t have to remember which is live. Disadvantage is can be kind of disconcerting when you turn the toaster on and suddenly power trips out.</p>
<p>3)wiring in critical circuits only so that total circuit value<= generator. </p>
<p>A professional can help you decide. If you go the portable generator route make sure to do the research, one of the things to remember is continuous versus peak. Electric motors, compressors and the like, when they start up have a surge wattage that can be several times what it takes to run, thus an 800 watt pump can draw 1600 or more watts when it starts. Generators need to take in peak wattage into consideration as well.</p>
<p>Folks need to keep generators outside and properly ventilate to avoid carbon monixide poisoning…several people have already died following Sandy from using gasoline portable generators improperly ventilated.</p>
<p>We keep as little gasoline stored inside our house as possible; it is too easy to have a fire start from leaky gas cans or tipped over gas jugs sparked by electrical stuff or propane pilot light on something like heater or water heater…</p>
<p>Having at most ONE properly appropriate container for gas that is PROPERLY stowed as well as gas in your vehicles is one thing. Having gas stockpiled for generator use and possible non-functioning of gas pumps during a power outage is another thing entirely and too subject to the hazards posted by others in this thread–fire, spilling, explosion. </p>
<p>CO poisoning from improper venting adds to the potential dangers that folks do NOT consider but is a serious risk as well.</p>
<p>Counting Down,</p>
<p>If you have an upright 100-gallon cylinder for your insert then it probably hasn’t enough capacity to handle a generator. For a generator you would need either two 100-gallon tanks or a 500 gallon tank depending on the KW Hours of the generator and number of appliances it would need to handle. This is the minimum to handle the pressure requirements.</p>
<p>We charge a fixed fee to hookup a generator and you would need someone to install it first. The preferred way is to schedule a site inspection when the installer is also there. I usually get called after the decision was made to go with a propane generator.</p>
<p>H bought a portable gasoline powered generator. He started it once to see if it worked, then left it in the garage. A few years later, we needed it and it wouldn’t start. Apparently, you have to start it every month or so to keep the fuel and lubricants from gunking up. After getting it cleaned out, H maintained it for a while and we did use it once. I’m not sure it was worth the trouble.</p>
<p>As with many things, if you are relying on it, you have to check periodically to be sure the equipment works properly. Depending on how frequently the area loses power and for how long, how urgent power needs are for the essential needs of the individual, the resources available to go to alternate lodging that had power, resources available to devote to a generator and fuel, etc. one would need to weigh all of this to determine whether it’s worth the hassle. </p>
<p>Can’t remember quite when brother bought my folks a generator–may have been 5 years–it still hasn’t been taken out of the box so not even sure if it works/worked. Also, the folks do NOT have ANY fuel around for it either, nor ANY approved container for such fuel.</p>
<p>None of my family members has ever lost power for much longer than 24 hours and we are all within a short driving distance of one another, so could easily “hang out” at one another’s place until power is restored.</p>