<p>Interesting. I was born well after Ginsburg. But it was a fellow graduate student who asked me how it felt like to be taking up a place in a Ph.D. program that could have gone to a male student. He seemed under the impression that I would use my Harvard Ph.D. as a piece of wall decoration.</p>
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<p>And this is also the reason why the most ‘impressive’ students continue to choose HYPS over the other schools, thereby perpetuating the advantage that these schools have in this department.</p>
<p>I don’t know if someone already mentioned this but I’ll add their definition of middle class when it comes to financial aid. </p>
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<p>What is her point?</p>
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<p>Yes and no. A generation ago, it wasn’t “HYPS”, it was HYP, and the difference between HYP and their next strongest competitors was far greater than it is today. Because (1) the quality of suburban education has increased so much, (2) coeducation and diversity have entered their second generation, (3) the benefits of national elite research universities are far more appreciated in all regions and at all economic levels, (4) the absorption of Vietnam-era PhDs, and (5) the prolonged economic prosperity of the 80s through last year, there are far more students interested in these schools today, and qualified to attend them, than the schools themselves can handle. So they no longer have anything like the monopoly on top students that they once had, and the next cohort of private colleges – starting with Stanford, but certainly including the rest of the Ivies, Duke, Chicago, Northwestern, Washington University in St. Louis, Tufts, and on down the line – have closed the gap considerably in terms of the quality of education they offer and the quality of students they attract. </p>
<p>When I was applying to college, the notion that a student might choose Brown, or Columbia, or Stanford over Harvard would have seemed ludicrous, and that just isn’t so today. Furthermore, I think the admissions staffs at HYP fully recognize that they are turning away quality students based, essentially, on guesses, and that those students are systematically turning other colleges into institutions that educate the same kind of achievers that HYP once effectively monopolized.</p>
<p>JHS is quite right, and this is why I think the continued use of HYP (or even HYPSM) is bad.</p>
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<p>I see that too and can personally name quite a few elite grads who are at home, including HYP grads; I think it reflects that they tend to achieve a good (defined as six-figure, I suppose) level of success, marry people with similar backgrounds, and then can easily afford to stay at home if they so desire. I don’t think that’s a slam; rather, I’d say the level of brainpower on some PTA’s is simply incredible!</p>
<p>For some bizarre reason, a lot of female students (mainly Chinese) that my D knows at Harvard are pressured by their parents to get married right out of school. Anybody know if this is some type of cultural phenomenon?</p>
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<p>And before that, believe it or not, it was just HY.</p>
<p>HY, like the NY Yankees, Rolex & Ferrari are in the enviable position of being self-sustaining brand juggernauts. The have, rightfully, developed the reputation of accepting and producing the best and the brightest. This in turn keeps the next generation of B&Bs clamoring for admission. That doesn’t mean that others aren’t producing equal or even better products, but the name recognition of these “producers” carries a cachet that others can only aspire to. </p>
<p>Over time, as the overall pool of high quality applicants has grown in number, it is only reasonable that other schools join the list. But at the end of the day, only a very select few will be recognizable to a Costa Rican lawyer, a Mumbai cab driver and a Wall Street I-Banker. It doesn’t make the educational opportunities necessarily better at HYP vs the other elites, but it does carry an implied, if sometimes overstated, intellectual authority.</p>
<p>If you are using the “random third world country cab driver” criterion, then in all honesty Harvard enjoys far greater name recognition than Yale. In fact you are more likely to impress the cab driver by saying (truthfully) that you are from Howard University than saying you are from Yale (which sounds suspiciously like jail).</p>
<p>vicariousparent,</p>
<p>Actually, the exchange referenced took place many years ago on a business trip, (I didn’t want to date myself by calling it Bombay). Furthermore, the driver, (investigating schools for his very bright (then) 8-year old) had no issues pronouncing Yale and was well versed on the differences between the two schools.</p>
<p>I’d have to say that the difference is in the company you keep. There is fabulous teaching going on at many colleges and universities. But by virtue of their reputations and financial resources, HYP get, in essence, the right of first refusal on the top students and top faculty in the world. Being in that milieu of great achievement seems to initially be dazzling, and then (as Hanna says) simply becomes the normal mode of thinking and operating. Such students, with HYP’s resources at their disposal, can engage in ambitious and powerful activities as a matter of routine that most of us might consider once-in-a-lifetime experiences.</p>
<p>Outside of USA; MIT and Stanford are better known and better regarded than Yale and Princeton.
But, Harvard is still in a league of its own.</p>