I think nutswithstubs and Vladenschlutte are merely suggesting that Penn State and UIUC are underrated and very similar to Michigan in size and mission. In that regard, they are absolutely correct. Academically, Penn State has very few overlaps with Michigan, but it is still excellent and, as a member of the CIC and AAU, and considering its size, football tradition, Midwestern vibe etc…, to suggest that PSU and Michigan are peers and similar is certainly not a stretch. UIUC actually has several overlaps with Michigan academically. It is just as strong in Engineering and Physics, and actually stronger in CS and Chemistry. Also, in terms of selectivity, there are overlaps between UIUC and Michigan, especially where Engineering is concerned.