<p>^^^ Yes, it is, but for pre-med purposes it’s still an Intro Bio. It just delves more into scientists, experiments, and theory (from what I’ve been told).</p>
<p>We know a kiddo who got 60 credit hours but repeated ALL the calculus and physics he had taken in HS at USoCal engineering (which the U recommended), even tho he got 5s in all the AP exams. He didn’t complain about re-taking the courses, which most of the kids in the class also had taken in their respective HS AP courses.</p>
<p>Medical schools generally don’t care if you take the easiest allowed choice or the hardest honors version of a pre-med course.</p>
<p>^^^ re med schools. We’re aware of that. He would have just liked the other class better.</p>
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<p>But that is a lot of time and tuition spent that could have been used instead on additional advanced engineering courses or out-of-major free electives. Or the student could have graduated early and saved the time and tuition if desired.</p>
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<p>Indeed. Students too often forget that they will only be able to take a limited number of classes over 4 years relative to the size of the course catalog. Repeating the basics unnecessarily is like going to an expensive Las Vegas buffet and first loading up your plate with stale bread rolls.</p>
<p>Our school system pays for the AP exams. If a student takes an AP class, taking the exam is manadatory. S1 ended up with something like 28 credits…really helped him. He was in ROTC which added extra classes to his courseload each semester. He couldn’t have graduated in four years if he had not had those AP credits. Ya never know when they might come in handy.</p>
<p>“We know a kiddo who got 60 credit hours but repeated ALL the calculus and physics he had taken in HS at USoCal engineering (which the U recommended), even tho he got 5s in all the AP exams.”</p>
<p>I am sure all 60 hours were not calculus and physics. That probably was anywhere from 8-16 hours. It sounds like a lot, but there’s a reason why universities recommend that engineering students repeat those classes. They have a better chance of success, and their gpa will be much better. What if he had NOT done that, had missed something that particular university wanted him to get - wound up making a B or a C in Calculus II and struggling the rest of the way through. This is a scenario universities have seen often. The approach they suggest is much safer for the kid.</p>
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<p>The Berkeley engineering advising (review the freshman calculus final exams) seems to make the most sense in tailoring the answer to the individual student: [Choosing</a> an Appropriate First Math Course — UC Berkeley College of Engineering](<a href=“http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/current-undergraduates/new-students/choosing-an-appropriate-first-math-course.html]Choosing”>http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/current-undergraduates/new-students/choosing-an-appropriate-first-math-course.html)</p>
<p>Washington University in St. Louis has something similar: [Calculus</a> Placement Exam | Department of Mathematics](<a href=“http://wumath.wustl.edu/Calculus%20Placement%20Exam]Calculus”>http://wumath.wustl.edu/Calculus%20Placement%20Exam) . However, its engineering course plans assume that the student has already completed calculus 1 (or AB), or will use a summer session to complete calculus 3 before fall of sophomore year: [Calculus</a> and Engineering Students | Department of Mathematics](<a href=“http://wumath.wustl.edu/calcengineers]Calculus”>http://wumath.wustl.edu/calcengineers)</p>
<p>^^^ My D is a freshman in Engineering at Berkeley. She followed Berkeley CoE’s advice for kids who scored highly on APCalcBC, looked at some of the old exams posted online, and decided that she was rusty enough to warrant re-taking second semester calculus. She is in Calc 1B now, and it is presenting plenty of challenge. She is finding gaps in her HS preparation, and stuff that she has just plain forgotten. She may end up with an A in the class, but she will have worked for it.</p>
<p>D is also taking Berkeley’s Chem1A, repeating HS Chem AP, because the CoE warns:
She is finding the lecture part of the chemistry class to be almost entirely repeat, and the HW is easy for her, but the labs are a struggle. Her HS didn’t have block scheduling, so they were able to do only the most minimal lab work in the 55min class period. Chem1AL is teaching her lab skills that she’ll need in subsequent classes.</p>
<p>Her HS only offered PhysicsB (non-calculus based physics), so that AP earns elective credits but does not fulfill any CoE requirements. Ditto AP Statistics. She took credit for her English, foreign language, and humanities APs, which fulfills the majority of her breadth requirements. That has both advantages (skipping out of basic humanities classes one might otherwise find boring) and disadvantages (narrowness of college curriculum, and the prospect of many semesters of all STEM classes). Yes, it’s true that passing out of basic-level humanities opens space for possibly-more-interesting electives later on, but she is concerned about jumping into those classes w/o adequate background and having to compete with classmates who have more inclination and experience with college-level writing.</p>
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<p>Note that Berkeley engineering allows only two of the six required humanities and social studies courses to be fulfilled with AP credit. So she will need to take four more, including a reading and composition B course and two upper division courses, although the AP credit can give her more flexibility with the series requirement of at least two (including one upper division) courses in the same department (she could take an upper division course in the same subject as one of her AP credits to fulfill the series requirement).</p>
<p><a href=“http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/current-undergraduates/requirements/hss-humanities-current-list/HSS%20NEW%20REQ.pdf[/url]”>http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/current-undergraduates/requirements/hss-humanities-current-list/HSS%20NEW%20REQ.pdf</a></p>
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<p>Note that most humanities and social studies courses have fewer or no specific prerequisite requirements, unlike science and engineering courses that need to be taken in sequence. For example, history courses at Berkeley tend not to have any listed prerequisites (see <a href=“http://general-catalog.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_list_crse_req?p_dept_name=History&p_dept_cd=HISTORY[/url]”>http://general-catalog.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_list_crse_req?p_dept_name=History&p_dept_cd=HISTORY</a> ), unlike (for example) electrical engineering courses (see <a href=“http://general-catalog.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_list_crse_req?p_dept_name=Electrical+Engineering&p_dept_cd=EL+ENG&p_path=l[/url]”>http://general-catalog.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_list_crse_req?p_dept_name=Electrical+Engineering&p_dept_cd=EL+ENG&p_path=l</a> ).</p>
<p>Our S was able to use his 60 credits to get his advisor to waive his engineering chemistry course requirement. He didn’t take AP chemistry, but I think the advisor was impressed by the sheer # of AP & college credits S entered with. It did help him satisfy a few general ed requirements, but we were glad he re-took all the math & physics because he missed a lot 25-50% of his class days in HS due to illness. Taking it again in college gave him a more solid base to move forward with and provided him with a nice cushion to have a great GPA in his field.</p>
<p>ucbalumnus – of course you are correct! I misspoke when I wrote that my D had fulfilled “the majority of her breadth requirements.” She maxxed out the breadth requirements that she can fulfill by exam. But that still leaves Reading&CompB (which she is taking this term) plus three more H/SS courses, two of which must be upper division. </p>
<p>If I’m interpreting things correctly, she can take the remaining H/SS courses on a pass/fail basis. That should alleviate most of her concerns about doing well in those classes.</p>
<p>She has told me she wants to continue studying Latin. I’m unsure which course(s) she should take after APLatin and how that interacts with CoE H/SS breadth requirements.</p>
<p>Another thing that I’m not clear on is whether APUSH and/or APUSGovt&Pol can fulfill the American Cultures requirement. This page seems to suggest it cannot: [Student</a> Info | American Cultures](<a href=“http://americancultures.berkeley.edu/content/student-info]Student”>Students | The American Cultures Center). However, there seem to be plenty of courses offered each term that do satisfy AC, and she’s not that picky about what she takes, so I’m optimistic she’ll be able to find an interesting course when she’s ready.</p>
<p>This is getting pretty far from the OP’s query. I don’t want to hijack the thread, so maybe I should ask this in the Berkeley forum…</p>
<p>For some of the AP tests you can get a 5 and still get a significant percentage of the questions wrong. So even with a 5 a student could have big gaps in one particular area of the subject matter. It does not matter that much in subjects like English, or subjects where the student does not plan to continue to study to the next level. However, if it is a foundational subject (like Calc or Physics for engineers) michal’s method is probably the best. Repeat the course unless you can confirm that the HS course has really covered everything in the class.</p>
<p>^^^ I wish I could claim credit, but my D was just following UCB CoE’s posted guidelines. They’re stated very clearly in several places on Berkeley’s website. It’s a puzzle to me why so many students ignore the recommendations and get themselves in over their heads.</p>
<p>At Berkeley, Latin would be in the Classics department. She should ask the department about appropriate placement in Latin courses.</p>
<p><a href=“http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/current-undergraduates/requirements/Languages.pdf[/url]”>http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/current-undergraduates/requirements/Languages.pdf</a> says that Latin 1, 2, 10, or 40 can be used for the College of Engineering breadth requirement; in addition, other Latin courses may be listed in other sections of the breadth requirement list (e.g. the art and literature list and the historical studies list).</p>
<p>Currently, no AP credit satisfies American Cultures.</p>