OP, in addition to what boneh3ad and others are saying, go back to juillet’s post 14.
" If your only research experience is in political science and public health, you will find it difficult to gain admission to a PhD program in the life sciences. "
To think this is about “your” intersts alone is not to understand how PhD programs admit and function. It’s simply not a dallience.
And you don’t “qualify” based on some undergrad papers. You need the background. You claim to be a good scout, but haven’t located the net-net here, yet. It’s not about what you want or what you think. You don’t have the background. Period.
It’s okay. He knows what schools want to hear.
@boneh3ad Literally I’ve been nothing but cordial (even thanking you numerous times) despite your often brass attitude. I am not saying that schools don’t go off of what students say, nor am I saying I will get in. You seem very defensive for someone who claims to be in higher academics.
I have also agreed with you many times in terms of my needing lab experience, my issue is that I am asking a specific question regarding majors. I get that you don’t think I can get in, that’s fine. You keep hitting on that without answering my question regarding hybrid fields or other suggestions. I’m sure in real life you wouldn’t strike half the tone you do behind a keyboard.
It is the snobbish equivalent of me saying which country club is best to become member at while saying I don’t have the money yet. And then you saying “who cares, you can’t get in anyways.”
It is clear you think yourself better so if this thread bothers you so much than leave. Many others have given criticism of my plans while offering the advice I asked for and not being rude about it.
@lookingforward see my follow up posts about trying for more of a hybrid field as opposed to strictly STEM
Would love to hear if you have any suggestions along that line.
“And you don’t “qualify” based on some undergrad papers. You need the background. You claim to be a good scout, but haven’t located the net-net here, yet. It’s not about what you want or what you think. You don’t have the background. Period”
@lookingforward
Also, just wanted to clarify but that was one example. I have graduate research but most are not lab based. In fact, one of the projects (neurodevelopmental disabilities) did have lab applications and was also conducted in conjunction with faculty at a T25 University. It was also funded by a government grant if that helps.
There are other papers/proposals/projects that are graduate but not lab based.
No suggestions other than a hybrid of poli sci and public health.
You dont have the proven background in any unrelated fields. That’s NOT just lab experience.
So you’re the one taking this all over the map. You’re focusing on what you want and not getting that it’s not about some new dream.
At this point, you dont have a ticket to belly up to the bar. Much less, get what you want.
You’re green. What will you do about that? Again, not just lab experience.
And older posters are noticing that you aren’t getting what we’re saying. That’s an issue. Your undergrad paper has no bearing.
My specific suggestion to the OP is to look at PhD ecology program websites for info on what those programs are looking for. The U of MN program in ecology, evolution, and behavior, for example, indicates that they expect students to make contact with a faculty member early on as admission there depends on students having found a faculty member who wants to work with them. There is another department called fisheries, wildlife, and conservation biology at the same U that you could look at to see what kind of students they are interested in.
BTW, there is a great interest in public health about how climate change may affect public health so the OP could stick with public health for a PhD. Probably won’t have the wildlife focus, though.
I am also aware of science policy PhD programs but they sometimes expect students to have previous degree in STEM.
I’m not being brash. I’m being honest and straightforward. You are setting yourself up for failure and won’t listen to reason from people with a lot more experience than you, all the while misrepresenting what we are saying. If you don’t want to take advice seriously, that’s fine, but don’t get bent out of shape when the advice-givers get annoyed by that.
I’ll jump in, but not sure you’ll like the answer, Seth, and that is you need to take some time off from school, and join the real world with a job. Going back over your posts on cc, is like reading ideas in a pinball machine. You keep bouncing from one thing to another. For example, it appears that you stayed at your current college for the MPH bcos you could, not that you had a passion for PH. (But perhaps I’m misreading.)
Regardless, instead of completing an internship (for a professional MPH), any chance you can transfer into an academic MS/MA program at your current school and get involved in some Enviro Sci research that will be beneficial for your PhD app? (Personally don’t think that you should apply for a PhD, as you have no background, yet, and any school that you could get into would not be worth attending, but you seem bent on wasting your time and money, so go for it, and prove the doubters wrong!)
@lookingforward
Thanks and I think your comment may clarify where the disconnect is. I came into this asking about a couple different degree options that ranged from very STEM to STEM light (not dissimilar to public health).
You said you can’t think of anything other than a hybrid of public health and political science. That immediately throws up red flags to me because I have friends in PhD programs that weren’t the same or even all that close to their previous experience.
Ex: Finance BS>PHD Physics
-This person did self study to catch up and then also completed an entrance exam. Contacted faculty to explain situation and express specific interest in field.
Accounting BS>Sociology PhD
Don’t quite know the specifics on this one as well, but Ik she did not take sociology classes prior to enrolling, again just took the time to speak with faculty, had strong scores, and went for it.
I understand this is not a 1-1 match, but I think you are being overly dismissive if you think I’m that limited in my options.
Can I get into Biology, chemistry? No
Environmental Management or Global Change? I’d say it becomes a much closer determination.
Also, what would your advice be if you do disagree with above?
@CheddarcheeseMN
Thanks! Will certainly give it a look, I know a lot of it comes down to developing a relationship and confidence with faculty members so as I get closer to narrowing I am definitely going to reach out.
Also, thought your comment on Climate Change and Public Health was helpful and close to what might be a compromise between what I want and what is realistic. Still really want the Wildlife Focus or at least environmental, but maybe I could do it in a more epidemiological way while still visiting/building towards the fieldwork?
@boneh3ad
My problem is you aren’t giving me advice at all! I guess you sort of answered my first question about admitting, but after moving on to majors closest to my line of interest you kept going back to “can’t do it, don’t have the experience.”
If that’s your opinion (or truth) then that’s fine. But please just answer my question. Or as an alternative tell me what your advice is for me to do. (Don’t do a PhD is not telling me what to do, it’s telling me what not to do).
If you recall, I wasn’t the only poster to say you were being over the top. Like I said others have stated criticisms but did it in a way that was constructive and promoted positive continuance of dialogue.
@bluebayou
By all means please let me know even if I don’t like it!
Yes, you aren’t wrong to say that I’ve jumped around. I’ve admitted that in this forum. Not looking for sympathy at all, but to elaborate I grew up in an extremely rough/abusive household (think my forum about emancipation is still up). Unfortunately, I think a lot of time that others spent learning about theirselves I never got to have until later in life.
Anyways point being, I didn’t know what I wanted to do for a long time. I chose political science because I knew that law/politics could help a lot of others who had been through what I had. But that wasn’t who I was, it was what my negative experiences had produced. Then I largely panicked and said I need to find something marketable (because I was not confident in political science finding a job plus I didn’t like it that much). So I chose to do a MPH that was accelerated. It was cost effective and provided versatility and stability. Again, I let fear and my past sorta dictate.
However, this past year or so is the first time I’ve really gotten to explore what I like and it turns out I love wildlife/environmental protection/conservation. I remember I was always fascinated with birds especially as a kid and loved a conservation experience I did on an alternative summer breaks program. Talking to scientists and adjacent workers I loved what they did and have always been acutely aware of the looming threat of climate change (which I thought might be a chance for me to also use my policy background.)
Long story short, I’ve never felt like this before and this is the first time I am really choosing what I love and want to do. Do I need to narrow a bit? Yes for sure. I’m not pie in the sky. I know time has already run out on some ideas I mentioned, but others are still there.
I really do like your advice on switching to environmental science but the closest my school had was environmental health science and that stopped admitting recently.
I did take classes like Environmental Science, Biostats, and Epidemiology. Also have a few electives yet that I will try to push in a STEM direction. Hoping those will boost me some.
You may not have seen my previous posts but I am actually making money in college. (Free CC, Made 5k in Bachelor’s, looking like I’ll make 12k for masters, McNair Scholar status/GRE 75th percent/GPA should make competitive for fellowships depending on field).
Seth-
what you dont seem to realize is that in most cases a committee of Professors are the ones who decide who to admit to PhD programs, NOT an admissions office. They are the ones who will be paying you to do research for them, should one decide to hire you, after you pass your qualifying exams . They are the ones who accept or reject applicants in the first place. And they probably won’t want to accept a student who has little knowledge in their area of their expertise.
So if YOUR interests , background UG education, GPA in Stem subjects, Graduate school tests subject scores in STEM subjects, and LOR’s from peer professors at the college you attended- which are ALL HIGHLY important in evaluating PhD applicants - do NOT align with the research goals those same professors are being paid to do in their highly specialized area of expertise, your application will not be considered.
period.
I’ve given you advice; you just mostly haven’t wanted to accept it. I have not claimed you wouldn’t be accepted anywhere. What I have claimed is that getting accepted and getting hired by a faculty advisor are two different things and you’ll have more trouble with the latter. Further, given your lack of real motivating reason to do this, I fear even if you do this, you’re wasting your time and will waste several years of your life not finishing your degree. Therefore, I’ve chosen not to offer as much feedback on what major to explore since I think it is counterproductive to you and your future.
A PhD closes more career doors than it opens. Maybe that’s fine in the end, but your reasons for doing it as you have enumerated them here are not very good and I’d be doing you a disservice to advise you in any way other than to take a step back and reevaluate. Is that a better piece of “tell you what to do, not what not to do” advice? Reevaluate your educational plans against your career goals. A PhD has very profound implications on the latter that are not always positive. You need to go into this with clear eyes.
@menloparkmom
Thanks, actually if that’s where the confusion is then I can perhaps explain more. It’s not that I don’t get that, it’s that I don’t see every field I have previously mentioned as being so incompatible as previous experience that it causes them not to hire me on.
At this point , I am willing to sacrifice the ranking of school, location, etc so long as it’s a field I have passion for. Ik someone will accept me, I guess guidance that I need is which of the programs I mentioned are most likely to do that.
I.E
- ENVH Science (No Chance)
- Ecology (Not likely, but possible)
- Global Change (More interdisciplinary dependent on school so fair chance)
Etc. Etc.
I understand my #1 goal has to be proving my subject knowledge to a professor. Ik that won’t be easy. But the other factors I do believe benefit me even if only in minor ways.
@boneh3ad
Thanks I think we are back on similar wavelengths here.
If I didn’t convey before, I know that convincing a professor to take me on is my #1 obstacle in all likelihood. I also understand that in certain subjects, my experience is 0 but in others that are more interdisciplinary it’s not so clear cut. That is where I am looking for expert delineation.
I can appreciate you looking out for me. Really if I thought there was a viable alternative to a PhD, I’d consider it. But I don’t think that part is something I am very flexible on. I really want help from those with a deeper subject area knowledge to guide me on narrowing my interests (which I understand is not ideal for someone considering a PhD).
“Reevaluating my plans against my career goals” is good advice to a point. The issue is that I can’t get a job in those fields with the experience I have now to test/narrow. Again, I cannot stress enough that I understand this isn’t the ideal way for a PhD to be considered. Nothing about my life has ever really been ideal though, I just have to go with the best of a bad situation.
I genuinely appreciate you clearing that up, even if we ultimately disagree. I can see more of where you are coming from now.
Seth, I think it’s clear you’re playing with us.
You really don’t get it or are stringing us along.
I’m not the one causing red flags, YOU are with this patchwork of ideas and NO action.
You’re so sure you can pick some new field, you cite folks who worked for it, but all you have is a ‘pipe dream,’ at this point.
You, sethm, are not presently qualified for aPhD in any subject you have zero related experience with, academic, research, lab, or other.
Why can’t you understand faculty want junior peers, not brand new lookers? You don’t have the relevant background.
Try for a masters in enviro something/enviro related, then see if you are qualified. Don’t get mad at us for telling you it’s a giant leap.
Seth,
the OTHER part of the equation re trying to get a PhD is that it is just not worth it if YOU have to pay a university to receive one, especially as it can take 5-7 years of hard work.
Only well funded competitive programs can afford to offer stipends for Phd Candidates, AND waive tuition costs. Those stipends, BTW, can sometimes barely cover living costs. They are the reason for the phase “poor graduate student”.
And those well funded programs have many applicants who are far more qualified than you are currently, and are the hardest ones to get into.
So sure, some lower ranked PhD program at Podunk U may take you in, but you’ll have to pay all the costs for tuition, and you WONT be paid to do research. And in the end, THAT hard earned, expensive PhD won’t give you much of a leg up on a job, compared to those coming from a much more highly ranked program.
so YOU need to rethink, and do a whole lot of research into what it will actually take, besides your interest in learning and desire, for you get get “robed”.
It ain’t easy.
Btw, I’m a Mom of a Phd from Caltech.
@lookingforward
Actually I’ve gotten some good advice from others so you are no longer needed. All I said was your total dismissal of any PhD relevancy was a red flag and you overreacted. I have gotten a variance of reactions thus far and yours was an extreme outlier. I am qualified for some PhDs and others not. I KNOW that.
My question was largely about the gray area which you seem to believe does not exist and luckily I have gotten help from posters on here who are more rational. You unfortunately are not. It is clear that we cannot further this conversation.