<p><a href=“http://linktv.org/pages/selectorPop.php4?caller=http://www.archive.org/download&prefix=WSFI20050208&name=WSFI20050208&filetype=mov&description=WSFI20050208[/url]”>http://linktv.org/pages/selectorPop.php4?caller=http://www.archive.org/download&prefix=WSFI20050208&name=WSFI20050208&filetype=mov&description=WSFI20050208</a></p>
<p>This is a really intellectual video you guys might wanna check out.</p>
<p>Certainly in the past there have been terrible outrageous crimes against humanity, from the Christian Crusades, to the early Muslims pillaging and force converting Christians Throughout the mid-east and North Africa. I believe that the actions commited do not represent the respective religions. Certainly people who call themselves Christians have been wrong in the past, but atheism doesn’t offer a much better picture. I’m not going to call atheists terrible people because of Stalin killing millions of people. I don’t think his values and his faith represent atheists as a whole.</p>
<p>I agree that separation of church and state is good. I don’t think anyone is really arguing against that. And it is wrong to assume that all Christians are shoot-from-the-hip GWB republicans. Jesus has no political party.</p>
<p>“religion is fantasy and people are real.”</p>
<p>I disagree. Both are very real and even atheists have a faith. They are placing their faith in there not being a God. This is their religion. We can’t get away from that because everyone believes something.</p>
<p>Atheist here. I don’t think atheists have faith. Atheists conclude that there’s no god. It’s not a belief, to us it’s a solid fact, like there’s no Santa Claus or Easter Bunny. When people say atheists are better at analyzing it basically means Engineering, lol. </p>
<p>Can anyone answer these questions?:</p>
<p>Would a benevolent god allow an airplane full of innocent people to crash into the world trade center and kill innocent people? </p>
<p>I’ve heard news reports of school busses accidentally running off a cliff and killing all the elementary school kids onboard. What did they do to deserve it?</p>
<p>check out this link:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.shtml[/url]”>http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.shtml</a></p>
<p>Regarding the above link, if you say it’s because of poor translation, then why believe in it so strongly? If not, then explain. It may be possible to refute some of the inconsistencies, but it’s impossible to refute them all and even one mistake would make this book that has the word of god invalid.</p>
<p>Uh here’s a few questions I’ve leeched off “149 questions to ask a Christian”</p>
<p>Search google for the complete list.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Answering this question entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18. NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe that slavery is an acceptable way to run a society. </p></li>
<li><p>If heaven is a place where everyone is perfectly happy, then explain how I could be happy in heaven if I had loved ones in Hell. </p></li>
<li><p>If your god wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, it isn’t free will. </p></li>
<li><p>If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity, didn’t he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus, who spent only three hours in pain? Shouldn’t we then be worshipping Judas? </p></li>
<li><p>Explain why your “just and merciful” god sent bears to kill forty-two children who called his prophet Elisha “baldhead.” (See 2 Kings 2:23-24).</p></li>
<li><p>In view of Matthew 6:5-6, shouldn’t prayer in public schools be discouraged? Support your answer with scripture quotes. </p></li>
<li><p>In the Genesis story, your god tells Adam and Eve that the day they eat from the tree of knowledge they will surely die (Gen 2:17). The devil tells them that they will not die, but that their eyes would be opened and they would know the difference between good and evil (Gen 3:5). Wasn’t Satan telling the truth here? Is your god a liar? Justify your answer in light of Jeremiah 20:7 and Ezekiel 14:9. </p></li>
<li><p>Is Jesus’s three days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice, when more than half of humanity going to spend eternity there (see question #11)? </p></li>
<li><p>If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified, and if he knew this, and if he was the son of your god, why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified? (See, for instance, Matthew 26:39). </p></li>
<li><p>Throughout the Bible, your god commands his followers to wage merciless war on unbelievers (Luke 22:36, Deuteronomy 13:8, Exodus 20:23-25, Deuteronomy 20:16, Matthew 10:34, Numbers 31:17-18, etc). If you are one of his followers, why aren’t you out waging merciless war on unbelievers? </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Oh yeah, I appologize if it seems I’m trying to antagonize people, I’d just like to hear some answers to these questions. I don’t really mind religion because a lot of people wouldn’t be able to live without its emotional and moral support. What I don’t like is when people try to convert me and act arrogant about it.</p>
<p>Greek Orthodox Christian</p>
<p>Two words: Oh Ford!</p>
<p>haha, this thread is amusing.</p>
<p>“What I don’t like is when people try to convert me and act arrogant about it”</p>
<p>isn’t that what you’re doing?</p>
<p>coolman25: I don’t want to come off as being arrogant or trying to convert you, but I can answer each and every question you posted. If you would like me to discuss my Catholic view, PM me.</p>
<p>i’m a muslim :)</p>
<p>hey coolman25,</p>
<p>ya know, i dont know how to answer those questions, and yeah, i’ve wondered about a lot of those questions too throughout my life. also, i’ve observed and studied about how the face of christianity is always changing. Different denominations have different customs, different interpretations of the Bible, different levels of conservatism and liberalism, etc. to me, it sometimes seems, how come the awful customs (like slavery) of the past are not present today, if those in this world’s past served the same God as we do today? </p>
<p>But, here’s the thing. As someone mentioned earlier, when I begin to doubt the existence of a God, of a creator, i remember the unlikeliness that we are here by chance. That a bunch of random mutations and genetic variations could create the magnificent, thinking creatures we are today is not possible in my mind. I agree with a lot of what yackityack and others said too. i was raised in a christian home but i have doubted, questioned, and challenged my faith in Christ, and i think it passes, regardless of some of the the things i dont know how to explain in the bible. </p>
<p>Also, like someone mentioned, I feel strongly about my God, but I don’t mean to sound arrogant about it at all. I’m open minded. I would hope everyone here is.</p>
<p>I havent taken the time to read all the replies yet, but is anyone here a deist? That’d be an interesting view to talk about…</p>
<p>Economist: could you post those answers on this thread? i dont think anyone would be offended or anything.</p>
<p>or if you dont want to, thats fine also.</p>
<p>My views are similar to a Deist belief. Although I would officially consider myself agnostic, I lean towards believing that there is/was a first and uncaused force that we cannot comprehend.</p>
<p>Call me a flaming liberal, but I think that religion (as an institution) is in a lot of ways, brainwashing. I know I might get my head bitten off for saying that, but it’s my honest opinion.</p>
<p>Personally, I can’t believe in God because the existence of God cannot (or at least has not yet) been proven. And I believe we are here by total chance, that’s why we have yet to come in contact with any sort of intelligent lifeform in this vast universe of ours – because the probability that yet another planet has the ideal settings for supporting life is so small.</p>
<p>I enjoyed your post, coolman.</p>
<p>This is long-winded and random. Feel free to skip it if you have more important things to do (which is probably the case). </p>
<p>I just thought of this; tell me if you agree/disagree with all or parts of this, no need for flames if I’m mistaken. I’m getting the idea as I type so forgive me if it’s not completely formed. Also forgive me if I sound too pedantic or bookish; I’m usually not this much of a jack@ss … but it’s 2:00am and I don’t have the energy to edit this so I’m typing whatever it is I think of.</p>
<p>In my opinion, the strongest external influence on a person’s religion is his/her parents’ religious beliefs. I’ve never heard of anyone being raised as a deist by deist parents (I’m sure it does happen, I just doubt it’s common as compared to any other religion). Therefore I assume that deism is more of an adopted/converted belief than something you are simply raised believing.</p>
<p>If we accept that, then we postulate that deists can be converts of two different ends of the religious spectrum: those who were raised religiously, and those who weren’t. Those raised religiously who turn to deism appear to me as people who are grasping for some form of their religion to hang onto when they realize that, scientifically and logically, religion as it was initially presented doesn’t add up. Those who weren’t raised on religion (or at least not strongly) may turn to deism because they find atheism too extreme or too devoid of answers. </p>
<p>Thus deism, like agnosticism, is a religious ‘middle ground’ where its followers can basically pick and choose which aspects of religion they decide to adhere to on an individual basis, depending how they truly personally feel and believe. The inherent availability of choice in this “religion”, as opposed to a more staunchly set religion (like, for example, strict Catholicism or orthodox Judaism…not that there’s anything wrong with those =P), makes it appear to be a more progressive and thus, a more “modern” choice. </p>
<p>I don’t have the numbers in front of me, nor do I know where to find them, but it would be interesting to see whether statistics support the theory of the growth of deism/agnosticism/atheism in the last several hundred years. As a continually progressive, growingly capitalistic, increasingly individually-independent world within the last half a millenium or so, do we naturally select less and less religion? …Or perhaps the opposite is true. </p>
<p>However, looking at historical trends, religion has assumably become less influential now than it was in the Dark Ages, when religion was the unquestioned iron law of the land (referring to Europe, because it was here that the dominant civilizations sprang from after the Renaissance). Is it possible to extrapolate this trend to the future and postulate that in another millenium or so, barring any major civilization-altering events, religion will become even less of a factor in our lives, withering into popular deism/agnosticism at first and then ultimately resulting in a general worldwide atheism?</p>
<p>When I say ‘general’, I mean it in the sense that Christianity was the ‘general’ European religion during the Dark Ages. Of course there were those who were not Christians (I’m not referring to Muslims, I’m referring to the small percentage of atheists/“pagans” who had been introduced to society) then, as of course there will be those who are not atheists. </p>
<p>I know there are potentially plenty of individual counterexamples to the details mentioned above, undoubtedly including some person ones from the people currently reading this, but what I’ve said is more of a general theory than anything else. Ah, ok, that’s it for tonight. Oh, what random crap I think of when I’m half-asleep…</p>
<p>coolman, your questions are simply a restatement of the argument from evil to the non-existance of god, which has many problems, as does any argument that attempts to prove or disprove god’s existance.</p>
<p>Second, all those “questions to ask a christian” lead nowhere as well. Notice that almost all (if not all) of them rely on contradictions in the bible for their basis. The bible is a collection of works (mostly letters between early church leaders - the NT at least) written for a much different time, and is certainly not literal in many places. I don’t think anyone can debate this, unless they want to explain why christians aren’t all going around lopping off their hands when it “sins against them”.</p>
<p>Another problem is that you are arguing against a religion, not against the existance of god. You have to approach the question from a purely conceptual point. The words “christian”, “muslim”, “jew”, “buddhist”, etc. etc. should not even cross your mind when debating about whether god exists or not.</p>
<p>And again, I’m sorry, but it isn’t a “solid fact”… seems to me that solid facts require proof. So - prove to me that god does not exist. I can guarantee you right now that you won’t be able to</p>
<p>Icarus: prove that Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny doesn’t exist</p>
<p>In regard to the thought that it couldn’t possibly be random chance that we’re all here…</p>
<p>From the Anthropic Principle we can basically deduce that if the conditions weren’t suitable for life, we wouldn’t be asking why they are as they are.</p>
<p>Basically if things were different, they’d be different and we wouldn’t be questioning why they weren’t like it is now.</p>
<p>If the sun was so violently radioactive that over five seconds of exposure to it would cause instant death, then we’d note how convenient it was that there are caves to hide in. But it’s not.</p>
<p>If for some reason humans liked to eat dirt, we’d find it marvelous that there’s so much dirt on the Earth and that it’s so finely tuned for life. But we don’t.</p>
<p>Yes, if there was even a tiny shift down in the sub-atomic level, life as we know it would not exist.</p>
<p>Life as we know it. But that doesn’t necessarily mean life wouldn’t exist at all. Maybe instead of oxygen we’d all breate sulfur. Then we’d think it’s so great that we have sulfur to breathe instead of something toxic like oxygen. </p>
<p>Interesting to think about.</p>
<p>Woah, nice one Jimmyeatworld.</p>
<p>Let me go next: Prove I’m not God. If you can’t, God would like a hamburger right now :)</p>
<p>Icarus, people believe in God mostly due to religious texts, or at least they draw most of their morals from them. If a religious text is incorrect then all the beliefs drawn from it have to be analyzed instead of taken at face value (though in modern society we’re doing more of that).</p>
<p>coolman, your mention of analyzing religious beliefs at face value plays a large role in that big chunk of text written by me a few posts up…</p>
<p>(shameless plug, lol)</p>
<p>Economist: Thank you for the friendly reply. I’d prefer to have the questions answered on the thread though.</p>