<p>actingmt - you are correct. We are fortunate that we live in a country where there is somewhat of a safety net for the poor that in many countries doesn’t exist. We have welfare and especially in our cities, hospitals that are easily accessible even if you’re poor, potable water etc. </p>
<p>To bring it back to the topic of the thread somewhat the third world poor think our poor are rich. The lower middle class thinks the upper middle class is rich. Even the truly wealthy don’t always think they’re rich. A billionaire once told me he wasn’t Bill Gates. Seriously. </p>
<p>One of the blessings and curses of the internet and TV is that there the folks who have more are “in your face” any time you choose to tune into their channel or go on the web and surf around. There are a lot of people who clearly have a LOT of money and assets, any way it is counted, while there are a lot of folks who struggle in our country as well as others. </p>
<p>Struggling and poverty is somewhat relative. Some folks who have little in funds have the ability to grow and raise things that are nutritious to eat, which they do. If they have potable water and shelter, they consider themselves better off than those who don’t. Safety nets vary in our country as well as others.</p>
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<p>Does this mean that retirees who spend less than their income are automatically “wealthy”/“rich”?</p>
<p>Granted, some of their income may be government transfers (Social Security), and the government picks up a considerable portion of their expenses (Medicare socialized medical insurance), but that is not as a result of them having to currently work for paychecks.</p>
<p>RICH is when u don’t have to rely on your employer or on freq flyer upgrades to fly your whole family int’l business class. </p>
<p>Part of what helped those who are “rich” become that way (without being born into it) is careful spending and financial management. IMO part of being rich is making select decisions about how one spends their money, which may include buying a les swanky car, even when they can afford to by a luxury car simply by pulling out their checkbook and writing a check. This is true also for spending (or rather not spending) $$$ on business or first class tickets. Part of getting rich is not paying for those out of one’s own pocket, but enjoying the benefit of getting to do so by using FF miles or being on a business trip flight. That said, for overseas flights, thats the way to go!</p>
<p>Hmm… </p>
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<p>According to this, I’m in basically in the higher end of “the rich”. But it really depends on where you live. Where I live, it doesn’t feel like I’m “the rich”. But if I were to live down south, I would probably feel like the super rich. </p>
<p>It’s an interesting discussion, but it’s all relative.</p>
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<p>On a basic level, how rich people in the US are is based on income. Poverty levels are based on what people earn, not what’s left after they’ve paid for taxes, a house, car(s), vacation, college, the cleaning lady, and lawn care. What they have left after expenses is, in many cases, choice. A family who starts out with $180k+ and spends it down to $45k is not anything remotely like the family who starts off with $45k. That $180k family paid nearly 1.5 times more in taxes than the $45k family earned. The $50k tuition the $180k family is paying is more than the entire income of the $45k family, and the $25k living expenses they’re able to hand to their student for living expenses is more than half that income. </p>
<p>However, I think context matters. And it’s not that the high cost of living in some areas brings higher income families down to middle class; rather, it’s high income for a given area that makes people, who seem to be making a middle class income, rich. In our town, 51% of our school children are on free or reduced lunch. The economy is not good. Parents are losing jobs, homes are being foreclosed on, seniors are having trouble affording their medications, and our food banks can’t keep up with the demand. My husband has a secure job making ~$60k/year. He’ll retire with a pension. We have retirement accounts (of ~$50k or so) and health insurance. Our cars and home are paid for and we have no outstanding debt. Yet, compared to many of our neighbors, we are rich.</p>
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<p>Lol, in what UTOPIA FANTASY LAND is this?</p>
<p>For a family of 4 (4 exemptions), married filing jointly, the taxes owed for these incomes:</p>
<p>$45k: ~$1,700 tax owed
$180k: $30,000 tax owed</p>
<p>The $180k household earns 4X the income but pays 17X the taxes.</p>
<p>In the developing world, poor is not knowing what you’re going to feed your children the next day. Poverty is often measured by looking at things like access to medical care, education, food. In the US, even if you’re poor, you still get to go to school. </p>
<p>Is this thread really about comparing poverty across cultures? Lots of defensiveness here about wealth. </p>
<p>^I wonder why. You can’t bring in poverty in another country. If everyone is poor, your awful living condition is bearable. You can’t tell the poor in this country how poorer people in Africa are and that they are very well-off in comparison.</p>
<p>I think classifying with income/asset is valid regardless of differing living cost in different regions. Areas with higher living cost have higher living standard, better facilities, entertainment, infrastructure. It’s not money in one’s own pocket but is factored in bringing up living standard and making life more enjoyable. The only place that has higher living cost for worse living conditions is at the mountain top or in the middle of desert. Nobody lives there.</p>
<p>I suppose one could say that the poor in the US are “richer” than the poor in Africa because at least here we have access to schools, clean water, and emergency medical care. All of that is very important. But if you don’t know where you’re going to sleep tonight or where your next meal is coming from, you’re still poor.</p>
<p>By bringing up how fortunate poor people are in this country compared to overseas, people with much more than median wealth belittle those with less who are truly middle-class in statistical terms. Not too many people in the middle or below who have a strategy for using frequent-flyer miles to go business class.</p>
<p>We’ve always flown coach, even for 18 hour flights. No opportunity to upgrade. But I’ve always felt blessed to have the opportunity to travel at all. </p>
<p>I think another dividing line between rich and middle class might be in the ability to live anywhere you want to in the US. I know that we can’t really afford to live near my husband’s family because they live in a major metropolitan area where our salaries wouldn’t enable us to buy a house – even if we could get jobs there. Most of us probably coudln’t afford to live in Manhattan, for example.</p>
<p>Well, I think the real dividing line may be the effect on the next generation. Half of our country is living paycheck to paycheck and considers themselves middle class but there is no family safety net at all even though they have houses, cars, college, clothes, food, and probably even a decent sounding family income. What they are lacking is choices and even the bare minimum amount of financial security.</p>
<p>I am not sure how assets are calculated. Does they include the asset of employer/union provided retirement pensions and/or individually funded 401K/retirement funds?</p>
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<p>With the way employers left & right are reneging on pension promises nowadays, pensions seem like maybe money.</p>