Morehead-Cain is very competitive at UNC, and it’s even more competitive for OOS students (not suggesting your daughter is not impressive). Oftentimes (not always) these awards go to strong students from instate as a way to keep them. A few students get smaller awards which will come in handy.
The student I met started a club in her HS and brought the club to the national level at various high schools around the country, where it still runs today. UNC places a lot of value on community service.
Similar to Jefferson Scholars (not on your list). The student I know personally cooked meals and delivered them to food pantries nationally (had his pilots license).
This is why I keep telling people to find affordable schools and/or look for merit at lower ranked schools (but still excellent schools). There are many, many impressive students out there.
Your list has several reachy schools. Wanting merit makes them even more competitive. I think your daughter should definitely apply (you never know!) but I would add a few others that she would be happy attending.
I keep saying Pitt belongs on this list, and I will say it again. Great school, urban, cool area, etc
Actually, that was the case of my DD. She loved theater. Wanted to major in theater (I said I am not paying and she can go to CC for that). She did theater from age 4… Not with leading roles at major venues but she was pretty good (Covid killed her breakthrough with leading in HS). (Of course, she had the whole package: dancing, singing, performing etc.) I was the most hated mom, I did not care… Anyway when we agreed on major in Engineering and minor in anything you wanted and participating in production, she did one semester of production in college and at the same time discovered ballroom dancing. I have not heard a peep about theater in recent 2 years. It is ballroom dancing nonstop…And she did not change her major and happy with it and her choice of college.
Oh, and I was told to not even think about missing going for Ballroom Nationals in Pittsburgh this year (since this time it is relatively close to MD) in March. It is already on my calendar.
You bring up a good point. There’s a good chance OP may be in this situation themselves as you note. My kid had four majors chosen in 11th and 12th. It’s a great baseline from which to build.
Agree about UNC - luckily its retail price is significantly more affordable than many options on the list, so merit aid would strongly tip in their favor, but not a requirement. And I’m well aware that she’d be lucky to get in at all!
Yes, I agree about Pitt and I have added Pitt per your suggestion to my new list (my updated list is posted above at post 154 (assuming no one deletes any posts by the time you read this and changes the numbering).
And I think the fact that Utah is a very cheap school that (subject to any BFA auditions) is essentially a safety for this student and offers the option to do both MT and Physics (even a double degree) plus fulfills other criteria (urban, plenty of attractive and convenient off campus apartments) is a big factor that many are overlooking.
Lots of kids want to go out of state when they are a junior, but next year when the family is faced with reality of OOS options that are not unequivocally better in every respect but are certainly far more expensive, the instate option can start to look a lot better. That’s especially true if the student has financial incentives to pick the cheaper option - a car, money for grad school or even a house downpayment with leftover 529 money. My D wouldn’t be doing ballet today if she didn’t have a very large 529 balance leftover to subsidize her living costs after graduation.
And her twin brother assumed in junior year he would be going to the east coast for PoliSci. After we vetoed most top need-only schools (eg Georgetown) on the grounds of cost, he was left with instate UCs plus a mixed bag of east coast schools that offered moderate merit (GWU, American etc) plus ones with super-reachy scholarships (UVA, W&M etc). He had plenty of admissions at schools costing $50K+ but at the end of the day, there was nothing that justified paying that much. He visited UCLA for the first time on admitted students day and that was that. His main rival in HS (with a very similar profile) went to Georgetown and S says there’s absolutely nothing that would have justified spending the extra $200K.
Given Utah remains on the table, then so long as this student would be OK going there (and can see the financial benefits of doing so), there is a valid basis for only having a reachy list of OOS alternatives (whether they are reachy for admissions or reachy for merit aid or both).
Here’s where I think your initial list threw me. It is full of large universities (many public) in large urban areas.
But when I hear about a student who wants a strong physics program AND the ability to participate heavily in/major in musical theater, I automatically think of selective small liberal arts colleges, which do not have physics and theater separated into separate colleges with different sets of core prerequisites and do not restrict who can audition for productions, etc. Problem is, many of those schools are not in urban centers (Macalester being a notable exception) and the price tags can be steep.
I think I remember seeing somewhere on this thread that you added Whitman (a VERY rural SLAC, but exactly the kind of school I thought of when you described your student’s interests).
If you are going to consider Whitman, you may want to add Carleton, also. Carleton is harder to get into and is also in a small town/rural area, but is not far from Minneapolis. It has a top-notch physics department and is high on the list of schools that send the most students on to physics PhD programs. It doesn’t have a musical theater major but does have a theater major and multiple musical theater productions. You could visit it when you visit Macalester.
Yeah, the large schools dominating the list were mainly driven by location and trying to keep costs reasonable. Carleton would be amazing! but they don’t offer any non-need merit. (well they offer a very very small amount ($2k) to small number of students). I don’t think my daughter will like Walla Walla much, but otherwise Whitman is great. Macalaster is a great option, but definitely on the spendy side of our list.
If you’re planning to contend with the UC app for the sake of Berkeley, another over-budget but attractive option could be the College of Creative Studies at UCSB. UCSB is a very strong physics school in general, and your daughter might particularly love CCS, which has a “grad school for undergrads” philosophy and provides a “small school within a large university” experience. (CCS has its own application on top of the UC app.) Physics | UCSB College of Creative Studies CCS students can double-major outside of CCS. In the Theater department, all students start out in the BA program; auditioning for the BFA program once there is optional. (There’s also a minor.) The major and department are not MT-focused. There are MT opportunities at the university and in the community of Santa Barbara. (“Shrunken Heads Production Company” is the student-led MT group.) But what’s also interesting is that there seems to be quite a bit of MT activity within CCS, fueled by the CCS Music Composition major, which offers classes like this REIMAGINING MUSIC THEATER: NARRATIVE, MUSIC, COLLABORATION | UCSB College of Creative Studies and this 15 MINUTE MUSICALS | UCSB College of Creative Studies , and which stages one of these productions every year: TV Musical | UCSB College of Creative Studies I would expect that any performance talent within CCS would be tapped for these, although I’m not familiar with how it works.
Anyway, potentially moot because of cost, but she’s incrementally more likely to get Regents at Santa Barbara than at Berkeley, and the financial award there is also a little bigger. (5K/year I believe.) And CCS mitigates some of the big-university downsides, and adds particularly good early access to the notable strength of UCSB’s physics department. Could be worth adding if you’re already going to jump through the UC hoops for UCB.
Yes, Carleton is spendy, but so are UC San Diego and UC Berkeley (which also offer very little merit to out-of-state students). And they made your initial list.
It isn’t clear to me what your threshold is for cutting a school based on lack of merit. Is under $75k cost of attendance okay (like Berkeley at $72k-ish) but nothing over?
Bradley U - at one point a basketball power - used to give COA on the NPC. Hofstra, close to NYC I mentioned earlier does similar so put in the stats and see the cost.
Not music but has anyone mentioned Occidental. I would think, but don’t know, theatre might include some music even if not stated.
Other small city but not rural - apologies if mentioned - U of Oregon runs musicals.
WWU in beautiful Bellingham, Lewis and Clark in suburban Portland and Willamette in Salem might be suitable theatre schools at budget.
And you mentioned Philly so again the list is long -maybe these were mentioned - Drexel says all students can take classes in performance. It’s urban For LACs, Ursinsus, a tad outside Philly, looks like it might not work but would have great merit so take a look.
Back to the NYC area, Hunter College. Marymount Manhattan has sciences but not physics but a design your own major.
And since we are just heaving names - The New School has a theater BA - BFA for music and an interdisciplinary Science major. No clue about aid. So no physics but The New School rep isn’t bad.
Ok one other nutty thought and I am not sure of the political desires if that’s the Arizona issue. U of Kansas says you can focus on music as a theater major. It’ll be like Indiana U - 40 miles from the city on a very cool, progressive town. Now you say but Kansas yuck. I’ll say this 1. Dem Governor 2. They were one of the first states to put reproductive rights in front of the voters and now those rights are established law - so what you perceive and what it really is - two different things. And their Honors College - one of the top rated in the country.
Probably none of these stock but hey - you never know…
For folks commenting…please remember that musical theater is drama, voice and dance….it’s not just one or the other. A student who wants to improve at this craft wants to keep up with vocal music, dance (and multiple genres) and acting…all three. AND have the opportunities to perform. These are all very time consuming. Because really to be great at musical theater, you need to be good at all three aspects.
So when you are suggesting schools…please keep this in mind for this OP. They are looking for a place where MT skills can still be built and used…but also want a strong physics program.
From my friend’s visit observations, I would not put Hofstra for this student on the list. I was told it does not look appealing at all (neither for location - far from NYC center -nor socially). We visited Ursinus… No way… It is so small… My DD said NO. Drexel was on the initial list but disappeared… I bet there is a reason.
For the UCs, this appears to be true at UCSD (competitive admission to the physics major, if not direct admit as frosh). Some other UCs have minimum GPA requirements higher than 2.0 (3.0 at UCI, 2.70 at UCSC).
I would not recommend Hofstra for this student, although I do think she might get money.
I would recommend SUNY Buffalo over Hofstra, and it will be under budget. It’s strong in the sciences and it has musical theater, theater, etc. While the campus itself is not located in the city, the downtown area is not too far.
I’d like to make a plug for UIUC, which is on your list. Very good for Physics and the OOS tuition is right near your budget. No, it’s not big city, but Krannert Center is a wonderful theater venue that draws talent from around the world for performances. Also, State Farm Center for concerts and BIG10 sports. Chicago, St.Louis, and Indianapolis all within 2 1/2 hours. The campus also has had a lot of growth in terms of on campus apartment options, and probably more affordable than many other places in that respect.
Speaking of the “not big city” remark above, it strikes me that if this student is double-majoring plus doing musical theatre productions and physics research, the whole premise that she’ll have time to explore and enjoy a big city may be… over-optimistic…! I get that there’s an “ambience” factor even if you’re busy, but I think it would be a mistake to heavily de-prioritize non-urban schools.
I also added Richmond. Thank you for this suggestion. It was not on my radar at all. Being in the west we know a lot about the California and PNW schools, but a lot less about schools in the East. I really appreciate this suggestion.
Yes, there is some inconsistency for us with our cutoffs. Carelton’s COA is $82K vs $72K so there is a real difference, but also Berkeley’s physics program is often ranked in top 3 and we are both alums so we know and love it and would be willing to pay more for it).
