Please move on from debating preppy culture. Posters are welcome to move the discussion to PM but debate is not permitted outside the political forum.
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Kids change a lot in college too, even after just a few weeks. My daughter went from loving to wear sundresses (in FL). She packed all those sundresses to college in the west where it was 29 degrees one morning in late September - on to the flannel shirts and cowboy boots! (and I got to bring all those sundresses home unworn)
Things change in college. Try to find the fit, but leave some wiggle room too for her growth and style changes. Your child will also be given a ton of t-shirts within the first few weeks - football, join our club, Smith Dorm rules!, fundraiser Q, Greek rush… and you’ll get to bring all those home too.
When we as parents talk about cultural fit (culture as expressed by many factors such as clothing, grooming norms, body norms, importance of athletics, party culture, importance of Greek and many others) I think it’s important to keep in mind we all have different kids.
For some of us, our kids have generally fit into the predominant culture/cultures of the high school they attended and the community where they were raised. For others?..not so much!
For those of us who had kids who DID fit in, it might be a welcome growth experience to get stretched on that front (or if nothing else a source of funny anecdotes for the future.)
For those of us who had kids who definitely did NOT fit in, finding cultural fit (at last!) has a different emotional weight. And if finding that fit involves to some extent relies upon heuristics, well I see that as being pretty practical.
Both of my kids spent years in schools where who they were was out of step with the prevailing culture. Now they attend schools that not just tolerate them, but actually celebrate and value the people they are. Not in a “search them out and you will eventually find people like you” way, but rather in a “this is a place that puts the highest premium on what you have to offer” way. And yes, you can visually see the difference in the cultural norms. Because we know from sociology that humans do often signal who they are through clothing, grooming, bumper stickers, even hobbies.
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Very well said! I agree 100%.
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hmm
Both theater and physics are insular enough majors that students appear to present themselves as culturally similar to each other across colleges ( though the theater and physics majors themselves are very different from each other and unlikely to overlap much anywhere, IME.) The physics majors at both Grinnell and Richmond, to use 2 schools you cited, would have a lot in common and likely get along well.
How about CUNY City College?
Has Physics through the PhD level. Has what appears to be a hidden gem in its theater program–it’s a BA program and you can major or minor, but even non-majors can audition. It has a musical theater track.
CUNYs are mainly commuter schools, but City College does have dorms. And theater programs tend to produce tight knit communities that stay on campus. The campus is lovely, and Hamilton Heights is very cute. Excellent subway access. Very diverse student body.
Apply for the Macaulay Honors program, which is a full ride and about as prestigious as it gets.
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Updated list for anyone interested: D25 is officially more engaged in the process and removed some that she wasn’t interested in. We are now down to 19! Campus visits start next month.
Alphabetical order - not rank order
CalPoly University-San Luis Obispo
Clark University
Duke University (only if gets Robertson - aware this is extremely unlikely!)
Lafayette College
Lawrence University
Macalester
Northeastern
Santa Clara University
St. Olaf
UC Berkeley
UC Irvine
UC San Diego
Univ of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
University of Arizona (depending on the financial situation of UofA 2025+)
University of Colorado, Boulder
University of Utah
University of Wisconsin - Madison
Washington University at St. Louis (only with an unlikely large merit scholarship)
William and Mary
(Just to avoid rehashing of posts - I know UCs are expensive, I know Duke, WashU, UNC are very low acceptance, and I am super aware of the COA, and the range of likelihood of merit and amount of merit available at the various schools. 
For most of the private schools on this list, D25 would only enroll if the offer came with a large merit scholarship. At some of these schools big merit is likely, at others it is very unlikely, so we will have a wide range of schools on her final application list (hoping to get it to around 15 total).
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This is a great list. If we were playing “one of these things is not like the other”, I’d flag Lawrence… a very special place, but Appleton WI is a bit of a disappointment for a kid looking for a “big city” (however you want to define big). You’ll get pushback from others… but if I were looking to trim, that would be one to at least discuss…
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I’d say Lawrence warrants a visit, if possible, before ruling it out. I visited with my D13 and really felt like I got a clear impression of the school’s personality, and also a sense of the surrounding area. They were very accommodating; I’m sure they’d arrange theater and physics-specific experiences on request. (Or, keep it on the list - the application is an easy one - and visit if you don’t end up with another acceptance that clearly bumps it out of contention.) The performing arts and physics strengths stand out in a way that isn’t true of, say, Clark (and I have nothing against Clark - I suggest it often - and yes, I understand that the proximity of Worcester to Boston gives it an edge in that regard). I’m also not sure how a head-to-head between Lawrence and St. Olaf would pan out, for these criteria, if you had to let one go. For now, I think this is a great list!
(Visit-wise - not too difficult to do St. Olaf, Macalester, Lawrence, and UW-Madison in one trip, with a minor slog across northern Wisconsin in the middle.)
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She loves Lawrence conceptually (based on meeting with a college rep), so it is at/near the top of her list. We will visit there though to make sure she likes it in reality (and we will visit in winter for a true test). It was a bit of a surprise to me that she is so enthused about it given the location - but the fact that it is strong in physics, that Appleton gets Broadway touring productions even though it is a smaller city, and that she would have an extremely good chance of getting to be in productions (plus the anticipated cost after merit aid) moved it way up her list.
[adding] My biggest concern about Lawrence is the sunny vs. overcast days. We cut out a ton of schools based lack of sunny days. Lawrence is currently the school with the fewest sunny clear days on our list. The D term means she wouldn’t be there for all of Dec so that would likely improve it a bit, but that issue is still on our radar for sure.
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I know you are trying to narrow your list, not expand it.
But I just read this profile of an undergraduate physics major with arts interests who took an interdisciplinary approach with great success at Oregon State and is now Cornell-bound.
Oregon State is also opening a new performing and visual arts building this year. One of the related initiatives is to stress relationships between the performing arts and STEM fields.
https://prax.oregonstate.edu/initiatives
Because you are in the Mountain West, I am assuming you are in a WUE state so that your child could be competitive for an OSU WUE scholarship. That would make the school potentially one of the most affordable relative to the others on your list.
So I thought I would mention it one more time. Corvallis is not a large city, but feels much larger than St. Olaf’s Northfield and is a similar distance from a larger metro area.
I also know a student at Arizona who has had amazing research, publication, and research opportunities already and is only in her second year. I understand the shaky financial situation is something to keep an eye on and ask about, but I wouldn’t take it off the list just yet.
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Oregon is a lovely suggestion and in many ways a good fit, but the number of cloudy vs. sunny days has kept all of the Pacific Northwest off her list. (Whitman is still waiting in the wings as a possible add-on; being west of the cascades its weather is a bit better, but still not great).
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I don’t think low acceptance rates matter bcuz you have safe choices.
I might question why Duke with only Robertson or WUSTL with merit but then why a UC ?
If merit required at the privates, then why W&M ?
Seems like it’s a great list but the odds of much of the list won’t get true consideration ?
Perhaps my observation is off. But I feel like you can sort of see the final consideration set already.
Yeah, I feel good about her safety options. That gives us a lot more room to play.
Duke and WashU are mentioned specifically since they are the unfortunate combination of being crazy expensive and providing very limited merit aid. Many other private schools on this list are in the same general $ ballpark (e.g. Northeastern) but give merit aid to a lot of their incoming class, so we are factoring in a discount when creating our list.
Retail COA without Scholarships -
Duke - $89,000
WashU - $84,000
UC - $73,000 - $78,000
W&M - $68,000
W&M is closer to our desired cost even without merit, so worth a shot to apply there. She would still need to get $, but at least it is starting from a better retail price. The UCs are the most expensive we would even consider, and their cost puts them way down our list. Duke and WashU are a definite no without big merit scholarships, but with the big scholarships they are great. They are our “hail mary” options.
For all the private schools her options would be conditional upon receiving merit. It is just that the schools on her list (other than Duke and WashU) are likely to throw her at least some $, so I didn’t specifically indicate on the list that they would require merit to be contenders.
At the end of the day we will have to wait until offers come in and then compare, but we can guess generally what the final offers (if received) will be. We definitely have them ranked tentatively by predicted value.
If $60k is the budget, you’d have better odds at an Emory, WUSTL, Vandy, Miami, CWRU etc than a W&M or UC believe it or not. I know they don’t meet the state preference but just as an example. W&M is $67k and rising and won’t get to $60k short of their big scholarship. but and just throwing out a name - a CNU or Salisbury half. They are more regional - but just examples.
But it’s fine - you have sub $60k schools - a handful.
I’m just saying you can tell already what your final group will be…at least in my view.
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Just FYI - William & Mary doesn’t give many merit aid scholarships. It’s all or nothing. The 1693 they give to about ~8 students a year. The Monroe scholarship is just a research stipend. It’s $0 off your bottom line. They do also have one for people who have overcome significant hardships.
Financial & Merit-based Aid | William & Mary.
(Fwiw my S was the 1st alternate for the 1693. Once the last kid signed, he received $0 and went elsewhere)
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Thanks. That’s what I was trying to say.
Doesn’t mean not to apply but it’s likely a throw away app s many on the list appear (to me) to be.
But again there are schools on the list that will meet the need.
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A reminder of what the OP stated in post 388.
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We know the UCs won’t get below $60, sadly.
Emory and Vanderbilt seem to fall generally in our Duke and WashU category - Hail Mary’s that provide very few merit scholarships and start with really high retail prices ($84K and $81K respectively). I think it only makes sense to apply to a couple of those, and Duke and WashU are better fits for her. Vandy is still on our radar for sure though. If Duke or WashU come off, Vandy would replace it.
CWRU was a great option, but the really low # of sunny days a year got it (and all OH schools) nixed from our list a while ago (so the same applies to Miami).
I think of W&M similarly to the UCs - expensive and lower on our list for those reasons.
The schools that would be the most expensive on our list, even if merit is awarded are William and Mary, Macalester, Northeastern, and all the UCs. So, yes, I agree we do likely have our shorter list mostly figured out.
The nice thing about W&M, the UCs, and all the public options is that since they don’t give much merit we can basically predict what the actual cost will be right now. With all the privates on our list, they could come out anywhere on the cost spectrum, so it makes it a bit harder to mentally commit to ranking them. We know many of the privates are a “no” without merit, but we anticipate she will get merit to some yet unknown subset.
The schools we are fairly confident would come in under $60 after merit are:
University of Utah
Lawrence University
University of Arizona
St. Olaf
Clark University
University of Colorado, Boulder
CalPoly University-San Luis Obispo
Univ of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
University of Wisconsin - Madison
(Maybe Santa Clara and Macalester, but less likely)
And each school has an amount we would be comfortable paying for that school. We would be willing to pay more for UNC than Boulder or Clark. UofA’s COA would need to come in really low for it to win out over, e.g. Madison.
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