What should I put for race?

_rentof2 · November 3, 2008, 1:53am

I wasn’t aware there was a catagory of “Hispanic - Spain.” That’s really interesting, and seems to address any concerns you might have. If you are asked for a further description of your background, then you can easily provide it. I wouldn’t worry.

I don’t think you should consider your Spanish/Spain background as making you an URM, though. The app asked about your background and you answered the question honestly. It didn’t ask ‘are you a member of an under-represented racial minority?’ If an application did ask such a question, then I think your answer would have to be ‘no’ since people from Spain are European and Russians are… well, it could be Asian or European, I guess.

But that’s not what you were asked. You were asked about your background and you properly identified your Hispanic heritage as deriving from Spain. If there is that special designation, “Hispanic - Spain”, it’s probably because they do want to know if your hispanic background puts you into a racially under-represented group. By specifying Spain you are telling them it does not.

tokenadult · November 3, 2008, 9:33am

Harvard no longer has an early admission round, so this story must be somewhat old. And the story occurred here on CC, which means that usual journalist standards were NOT applied to checking the accuracy of the story.

The links in the FAQ posts in this thread (into which your question was merged), especially in post #2, answer the question of how ethnicity categories are defined by federal law.

You are always welcome, by law, not to check any race or ethnicity category at all.

Harvard is a tough admission challenge for anyone. Good luck in your applications.

artsymed · November 4, 2008, 1:07am

I’ve heard from (what I deem to be) an unreliable source that asians are held to high standards in the admissions arena at american colleges? Is this true at all? If so, is it better to be asian or asian american (relevant to chances of admission)?

I’m a taiwanese, czechoslovakian american (although because I apparently ‘look full asian’ and no one believes I’m half I’ve just grown accustomed to marking off ‘asian’ and country of decent ‘taiwan.’ my hs guidance counselor said it would be fine but my dad said ‘you’re american just check caucasian, dumb**s!’ … o_@ yeah he never went to college/doesn’t believe in higher education and I believe is actually out to sabotage my efforts to succeed as a scholar but…yeah)

help? O_o

cavilier · November 4, 2008, 1:50am

If it really bothers you, don’t fill out the questions about ethnicity. They are usually optional.

I’m Asian and that’s what I’m putting on my application. If a University wants create diversity in their student body and help URMs, that’s their prerogative. If they’ll take me, it’ll be because of the way I am, not because of the way I choose to represent myself to colleges.

tokenadult · November 4, 2008, 12:50pm

That’s right. By federal law, answering ethnicity questions on a college application is ALWAYS optional. (That’s made more clear on some forms than others, but it is always the law.) See [post</a> #4](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061012037-post4.html]post”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061012037-post4.html) in this thread into which your question has been merged for a long list of colleges that admit a lot of students who are reported as “race/ethnicity unknown.”

penguino9 · November 4, 2008, 6:31pm

i have a question - i applied by checking two boxes. one, black/african american, and native american. i am 3/8 choctaw. however, when i did my early action, i was not aware that schools asked for proof of tribal affiliation. i put common apps standard 1/1901 for my date of enrollment, but also (with thehelp of my parents), am looking to enroll. my father (native american component), is a registered member, so it shouldn’t be too hard. should i email the college when i get my enrollment date? how long does it normally take to enroll? will i be at a disadvantage if i cannot get an enrollment date before admissions decisions are completed?

tokenadult · November 4, 2008, 6:37pm

That’s an interesting question. I think not all colleges have the same procedures for looking at tribal enrollment (the federal definition of the American Indian and Alaska Native category includes “community attachment” as one basis for belonging to the category besides formal enrollment). Anyway, you apply now (or soon) by the deadlines the colleges have, and then catch up with enrollment and verification of enrollment as soon as you can.

Good luck in your applications.

tokenadult · November 5, 2008, 7:52pm

Interesting commentary on our newly elected President:

[Barack</a> Obama has gotten past affirmative action. Have we? - By Dahlia Lithwick - Slate Magazine](<a href=“Barack Obama has gotten past affirmative action. Have we?”>Barack Obama has gotten past affirmative action. Have we?)

tokenadult · November 6, 2008, 12:05pm

Chronicle of Higher Education Q & A with Barack Obama, reposted on the Obama-Biden campaign site:

[Barack</a> Obama and Joe Biden: The Change We Need | Students.BarackObama.com Blog Director: In the news: Obama on Higher Education](<a href=“http://students.barackobama.com/page/community/post/sfboblogdirector/C5kt]Barack”>http://students.barackobama.com/page/community/post/sfboblogdirector/C5kt)

rjacob · November 6, 2008, 12:27pm

Colleges should look at one’s income rather than race when deciding who to accept. I saw a African American here at CC and she went to the TOP PRIVATE school in her state and got into Penn with sub par standardized scores. She wasn’t even an athlete, musician, ect.

Income is the best way to determine the resources around a student, not race.

tokenadult · November 6, 2008, 1:32pm

There are various points of view about that issue, but several scholars think that family income has been too neglected in college affirmative action programs, at least until very recently.

Here are some links about the issue. The overall picture in the past decade has been that high-ability, low-income students are at a clear disadvantage in the college admission process compared to low-ability, high-income students. (The links below are in approximate chronological order of publication, from oldest to newest.) Is anything changing recently about this?

[BW</a> Online | July 7, 2003 | Needed: Affirmative Action for the Poor](<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?)

<a href=“http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0621.pdf[/url]”>Error;

<a href=“http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ff0615S.pdf[/url]”>Error;

<a href=“http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Education/carnrose.pdf[/url]”>http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Education/carnrose.pdf</a>

<a href=“http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Education/kahlenberg-affaction.pdf[/url]”>http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Education/kahlenberg-affaction.pdf</a>

[A</a> Thumb on the Scale (May-June 2005)](<a href=“http://harvardmagazine.com/2005/05/a-thumb-on-the-scale.html]A”>http://harvardmagazine.com/2005/05/a-thumb-on-the-scale.html)

[The</a> Best Class Money Can Buy - The Atlantic (November 2005)](<a href=“http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200511/financial-aid-leveraging/4]The”>http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200511/financial-aid-leveraging/4)

[The</a> Harvard Crimson :: News :: Recruiting a New Elite](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=510012]The”>http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=510012)

[Cost</a> Remains a Key Obstacle to College Access](<a href=“http://www.equaleducation.org/commentary.asp?opedid=1240]Cost”>http://www.equaleducation.org/commentary.asp?opedid=1240)

<a href=“http://www.jackkentcookefoundation.org/jkcf_web/Documents/_JKC_Achievementrap_edit%20(2)%20for%20website%20-%202-21-08.pdf[/url]”>http://www.jackkentcookefoundation.org/jkcf_web/Documents/_JKC_Achievementrap_edit%20(2)%20for%20website%20-%202-21-08.pdf</a>

[Legacies</a> of Injustice: Alumni preferences threaten educational equity–and no one seems to care. - Reason Magazine](<a href=“http://www.reason.com/news/show/123910.html]Legacies”>Legacies of Injustice)

tokenadult · November 7, 2008, 12:26am

Interesting article from the New York Times:

<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/us/07race.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/us/07race.html</a>

BigWeight · November 7, 2008, 10:14pm

is this a reality or is it a lie? Does UC Berkeley and UCLA do this?

entomom · November 7, 2008, 10:21pm

AA is illegal for all CA public schools, UCB & UCLA included.

[California</a> Proposition 209 (1996) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_209]California”>1996 California Proposition 209 - Wikipedia)

BigWeight · November 7, 2008, 10:28pm

wow…thanks a lot!!!
that is a little bit shocking

entomom · November 7, 2008, 10:30pm

Unfortunately not, Michigan modified their AA policies recently too, as have other states when they’ve gotten legal challenges.

tokenadult · November 7, 2008, 10:50pm

Here’s the text of the California law:

The passage of proposition 209 amended the California Constitution to include a new section (Section 31 of Article I), which reads:

(a) The state shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin in the operation of public employment, public education, or public contracting.

(b) This section shall apply only to action taken after the section’s effective date.

(c) Nothing in this section shall be interpreted as prohibiting bona fide qualifications based on sex which are reasonably necessary to the normal operation of public employment, public education, or public contracting.

(d) Nothing in this section shall be interpreted as invalidating any court order or consent decree which is in force as of the effective date of this section.

(e) Nothing in this section shall be interpreted as prohibiting action which must be taken to establish or maintain eligibility for any federal program, where ineligibility would result in a loss of federal funds to the state.

(f) For the purposes of this section, “state” shall include, but not necessarily be limited to, the state itself, any city, county, city and county, public university system, including the University of California, community college district, school district, special district, or any other political subdivision or governmental instrumentality of or within the state.

(g) The remedies available for violations of this section shall be the same, regardless of the injured party’s race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin, as are otherwise available for violations of then-existing California antidiscrimination law.

(h) This section shall be self-executing. If any part or parts of this section are found to be in conflict with federal law or the United States Constitution, the section shall be implemented to the maximum extent that federal law and the United States Constitution permit. Any provision held invalid shall be severable from the remaining portions of this section.

[California</a> Proposition 209 (1996) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_209]California”>1996 California Proposition 209 - Wikipedia)

There are similar laws in Michigan, Washington, and, as of Tuesday, in Nebraska.

tokenadult · November 7, 2008, 11:43pm

An interesting commentary article from Atlantic magazine:

[What?s</a> Next for Affirmative Action? - The Atlantic (November 6, 2008)](<a href=“http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200811u/obama-affirmative-action]What?s”>What’s Next for Affirmative Action? - The Atlantic)

athenaruth · November 8, 2008, 3:17am

I’m a female who considers herself mexican and I identify it as my race when filling out college apps. Does identifying myself as a minority help me get into colleges? I am mainly applying to UCs and USC. And if it does help, to what degree?

cavilier · November 8, 2008, 3:30am

UCs don’t take race into account. I’m not sure about USC.

What should I put for race?

CONNECT WITH US