<p>What I meant is, I don’t have a problem knowing that someone being born one way is taken in to consideration in the SUM of their application. Also, I believe in holistic review and if my minority status happens to be coupled with something you don’t find on typical minority applications, my race is but a single feature of my addition to the college environment. No one is admitted to college based on race alone, but if that smart student happens to add something to the actual college environment, what’s the problem? Depending on the college’s preference, when you look at a minority student from a feeder state compared to a white student from an area underrepresented and has opinions unrepresented, the white student may win out. I understand where the frustration must come from if you are not an URM or one who wants to be based on merit alone. But, there are also males, white males included, that may get the upper hand when applying to traditionally female majors.</p>
<p>the purpose of AA is not to negate hardships that blacks/hispanics face. in fact, many blacks/hispanics don’t encounter any special hardships. its purpose is to increase diversity. diversity increases applications and prestige, in addition to undermining negative perceptions of top colleges as elitist and exclusive.</p>
<p>@juillet Asians don’t get representation in the media too you know.
I think Affrimative action for URM is actually a good thing because (obviously) it increases diversity.
however, the system is at a disadvantage for many ethic groups who don’t fit the “common” perception of any major racial category. For example, the majority of Laotians and Cambodians (southeast asians) are not your typical asian. Most, including myself, are descendants of refugees who never completed high school and are just as lost as the parents of most URMs. And many live in lowincome areas (btw, im from the hood) and go the the same schools and receive the same opportunities as other urms.
However, they dont get catagorized as an URM; in fact, they are at a disadvantage because they get clumped and stereotyped into the asian catagory.</p>
<p>The same goes for many middle easterners who have to enter their ethnicity as"white or caucasion" in college apps.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Do you have a link to the original post? The list is incomplete, and we don’t know how old. Something like this would be useful as a CC project, with various people contributing the numbers as has been done for Admit dates. A glance at that list makes it appear that colleges have increasing resistance to Asian admits as their percentage gets up to 25-30%. Asians looking to avoid discrimination might therefore wish to direct their applications to equally select colleges in which the Asian population is <20%.</p>
<p>Those numbers are readily available and do provide great info for Asian’s seeking non big name, great colleges where they wil be considered URMs. The problem is, top Asian students, like most, want the same 15 schools.</p>
<p>
black kid from my school just go in this year</p>
<p>the reason asians are “disadvantaged” is because selective colleges look to build a diverse and interesting community, and most of these super-student Asians who complain about being disadvantaged are essentially the EXACT SAME. Most of these “robot” Asians have the majority of the below criteria:</p>
<p>2300+ SAT or 34+ ACT
Experience in scientific research
Some bogus/empty presidential or leadership position (ex: NHS President)
National Champion Quiz Bowl Team (Captain)
Math Olympiad World Champion
Little/no work experience
No legitamate Varsity athletics, if any athletics
National Merit Finalist (230+ PSAT)
First Chair Cello Player
An absolute absence of personable qualities or speaking skills</p>
<p>** Keep in mind there’s plenty of Asians out there who are very interesting and are able to take advantage of being Asian by having cool extracurriculars. You usually don’t see the Varsity Football Quarterback/Captain be some Asian guy. That guy (who also works as a lifeguard in the Summer and has the same grades/scores as other Asians) obviously has an advantage over the kid who did research with rats in a lab for the summer and played cello with the rest of the “robot Asians”. </p>
<p>Sorry if this sounds harsh or anything; I didn’t want it to but if it did then whatever. It’s how it is and now I have a ton of robot Asians at my school complaining because whitey got into the school they deserved to cuz their SAT was 10 points higher. God.</p>
<p>QuakerOats415: Thanks for the honesty. I think you’re right. I think adcoms do look at many of these Asian high performers as “robot Asians.” I feel sorry for these kids who get this label because the logic behind it is the same logic that is called racism if the conclusion is about blacks or hispanics. It’s seems to me that our top colleges are hypocritical. They can’t say enough about racism against so-called URMs, but they use the same line of stupid thinking to conclude that all Asian high performers are “robots.” </p>
<p>We had a guest speaker in our debate club. He was from England. He said that America is the only nation that lets underperforming students attend the best schools based on race. In England he said that test scores determine where you end up. He said the same was true throughout Europe, South America, and Asia. (He added that kids of famous and powerful people get in all over the world).</p>
<p>UCHopeful73: My friend from last year who got rejected from HYPS with a high SAT is from Laos. His parents have never been to school and don’t speak English. He didn’t do hardly any ECs because he was always working. He didn’t play sports at all for the same reason. I thought that his high gpa (3rd in his class), test scores, and the fact his parents didn’t go to college would be enough to get him in, but it wasn’t. He was crushed when he didn’t get into even one of his dream schools.</p>
<p>^^^^ Actually they do take Laotians and Cambodians into account. Thai, too. Be sure to be specific on your application as to what your heritage is. Make sure they also know that your parents are refugees, you’re first generation and that you live in a rough area. You’ve just climbed aboard the URM train. Congratulations.</p>
<p>Are you a Jr? If so, and your family income lies below $60K/year, check out questbridge.org and the Questbridge thread that appears above. Feel free to PM me with any questions about the program.</p>
<p>Just a little something regarding QuakerOats415’s checklist for “robot” Asians (which I do pretty much agree with to an extent). So first off, I’m Asian…and aiming for top schools (who would of guessed?)</p>
<p>Checklist & how I match up =D:
- 2300+ SAT or 34+ ACT – My SAT is below 2300
- Experience in scientific research – no research done whatsoever
- Some bogus/empty presidential or leadership position (ex: NHS President) – 1 leadership position for a recreational club that I joined because of interest…pretty much bogus in the eyes of admissions officers
- National Champion Quiz Bowl Team (Captain) – not on any academic teams
- Math Olympiad World Champion – in fact, never even qualified for AIME
- Little/no work experience – worked part time over a few summers and a bit during school year
- No legitamate Varsity athletics, if any athletics – no varsity, but have done swimming outside of school over 3 years (not a great swimmer though)
- National Merit Finalist (230+ PSAT) – wasn’t even commended, so nada awards
- First Chair Cello Player – can’t play any instrument =(
- An absolute absence of personable qualities or speaking skills – can’t say for myself since it always depends on the other person’s perception
- (I’ll add another criteria) Massive number of volunteer hours – I probably have below 50 hrs.</p>
<p>So…since I don’t really fit into this “robot” Asian stereotype, am I at an advantage? Lol, I would hope so, but no, the truth is I actually think I’m rather underqualified compared to them. In fact, not only am I at a disadvantage for being Asian (i.e. ORM), but I believe I’m also at a disadvantage for being not Asian enough. And it doesn’t help that both my parents when to college, despite that they’re immigrants, can speak english proficiently but not exactly fluently, and are working daily for long hours, low-pay, in a non-professional job. They are pretty much just as lost as parents who have not gone to college. AA is quite apparent in some schools, and it certainly isn’t fair. Life is sometimes simply just unfair like that. You just gotta work harder to hold your stand in the world.</p>
<p>Just some other rambling thoughts responding to other posts…(no real point to be made): - my parents have hardly had a hand in helping me with my schoolwork, only occasionally scolding me to get me back on track in my studies
- Asians are hardly in the media, I saw many more hispanics and African-Americans on tv when I was younger - and I still do
- I agree with most of Old College Try’s posts – he is definitely able to put himself in someone else’s shoes
- AA is unfair but I guess it’s the only way right now to help those that actually have been affected by racism, injustice, etc due to skin color/ethnicity…it’s just that too many people abuse the system, or rather, they’re opportunistic, but then again I guess that’s just the kind of people colleges want these days.</p>
<p>you’re not at a disadvantage because you’re asian, you are at a disadvantage because you’re Chinese, Korean, or Japanese.</p>
<p>Great way to start the old controversy again… 
</p>
<p>I take back everything I said before. </p>
<p>It’s not a disadvantage to be Asian. It’s a disadvantage to be a stereotypically high achieving, solely academically oriented student, and it doesn’t matter what racial group you are in. Look at the checklist someone put up before… many boring Ivy League applicant does those things, it doesn’t matter if they are Asian or not…</p>
<p>Heres how i match up(Im chinese)</p>
<p>2300+ SAT or 34+ ACT=1400
Experience in scientific research=non
Some bogus/empty presidential or leadership position (ex: NHS President)=non
National Champion Quiz Bowl Team (Captain)=non
Math Olympiad World Champion=non
Little/no work experience=a ton(how you think i got my evo?)
No legitamate Varsity athletics, if any athletics=goalie for soccer team
National Merit Finalist (230+ PSAT)=got 130
First Chair Cello Player=bebop anyone?
An absolute absence of personable qualities or speaking skills=that ones true-.-
Just got rejected by Binghamton today</p>
<p>Straight up, I’m Chinese. My parents are both educated at top schools, and operate a upper-middle household. </p>
<p>In a way, Affirmative Action is effective. Colleges and other institutions do not work best with a group of purely analytical thinkers who offer little more than heuristics, but rather are most effective when each member offers a new perspective to the table. This does not only support racial diversity, but religious, socioeconomic, and sexual diversity.Learn to form and develop your own perspectives, and you will not be the ‘robot’ Asian.</p>
<p>To follow Asians upset about AA: You guys have to break the mold. Play Varsity sports, get leadership positions, join the Debate team while but still excel in Math and Science. Develop your own perspectives, and you will be in demand.</p>
<p>At different times, at different schools, anyone who was not a rich male WASP was discriminated against. Now rich male WASPs are discriminated against. It’s becoming hard to get my hands around a definition for discrimination.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Wow, this paragraph reads a lot differently from before the update. Disregard my post, unless there was something to all that, of course, but yeah, wow.</p>
<p>Checklist - omg are you serious?? these stereotypes are so freakin old…Asians with the Brain, Muscle, and A LIFE, UNITE!
- 2300+ SAT or 34+ ACT – Nah ah
- Experience in scientific research – Nope
- Some bogus/empty presidential or leadership position (ex: NHS President) – This one’s a yes
- National Champion Quiz Bowl Team (Captain) – Hell nah
- Math Olympiad World Champion – Heeeeel Naahhh
- Little/no work experience – I got a job. Yeah dig that
- No legitamate Varsity athletics, if any athletics – varsity tennis, club soccer, regional finalist bowler
- National Merit Finalist (230+ PSAT) – Nope
- First Chair Cello Player – Well,flute.
- An absolute absence of personable qualities or speaking skills – I do musicals at church every year
- Massive number of volunteer hours – 65 hours of volunteer work where I really wanted to work at unlike some of yall busting your butts off doing something you don’t even like</p>
<p>Hmm I am black and I want to see how I match up with this typical Asian thing. </p>
<p>Checklist & how I match up =D:
- 2300+ SAT or 34+ ACT – My ACT is 34
- Experience in scientific research–researched every year since 7th grade (except 12th)
- Some bogus/empty presidential or leadership position (ex: NHS President) – I am parliamentarian of Science National Honor Society (there are like only 5 black ppl out of like 40 of so) and I am treasurer of English Honor Society
- National Champion Quiz Bowl Team (Captain) – not on any academic teams
- Math Olympiad World Champion --Didn’t do this
- Little/no work experience – Oh I am different on this I worked two summers at target
- No legitamate Varsity athletics, if any athletics – Yep, no varsity did play football from 2nd grade to 10th when I broke my wrist and had surgery
- National Merit Finalist (230+ PSAT) – Nope, did bad on the PSAT and SATs in general
- First Chair Cello Player – It was actually trumpet, but I was definitely not first chair
- An absolute absence of personable qualities or speaking skills – Nope, I have awards for speaking and debate, and I am captain of the debate team
- (I’ll add another criteria) Massive number of volunteer hours – Nope did not do any voluteer hours</p>
<p>In all honesty I think my entire application would be ruined if I were Asian. The entirety of my app revolves around my love of science and from the science and research awards I have recieved. Except that I talked also about how it feels to be one of the few minorities there. I mean seriously I went to science fair five years in a row and I never saw another black winner. Even at the state level EVERY SINGLE person from my district was Asian (there weren’t even any white kids) just Asians and then me.
In reality I think ppl inflate the importance of race, I think if you make your app distinctly you then you will have a good chance. </p>
<p>Btw, what are the typical black ECs I never see any of these or even the typical white or hispanic ECs, it seems like ppl only paint a myopic view of Asians. Also since I know so many Asians and have them as friends I oppose AA, bc we all do the same things and work so we should all be treated equally.</p>
<p>Hrm… but about the AA, I don’t mind it all that much. I think it is a general rule of thumb that the URM’s are URM’s because of their economic status, inherited by their parents, which is nothing the students have control over. As a result, even if their achievements may be what other people view as substandard, they deserve to be in, or so I think.</p>
<p>In addition, I’m a Korean, and I want to see how I match up too!
Note: I live in Canada, so I’ll try to list the equivalent accomplishment instead :P</p>
<p>1) 2300+ SAT or 34+ ACT – My SAT = 2200
2) Experience in scientific research – I wouldn’t call it research, but this year, I’m participating in the Team Canada ISEF.
3) Some bogus/empty presidential or leadership position (ex: NHS President) – Well, I used to be that bogus Student Council rep, but I quit because honestly, SC became a total joke. I’m a student leader in the Debate club though, and I’ve been the Head Coach of the Math Challengers team since my sophomore year.
4) National Champion Quiz Bowl Team (Captain) – No idea, but I know that’s not me.
5) Math Olympiad World Champion – I qualified for the AIME, and got a score of 50.
6) Little/no work experience – I’ve mostly tutored other students for pay. I work about 8 ~ 9 hours per week.
7) No legitimate Varsity athletics, if any athletics – I play rugby on our school team, but the team itself is very obscure. I don’t know much about the varsities and whatnot, but I am a starter winger.
8) National Merit Finalist (230+ PSAT) – Didn’t take the PSAT
9) First Chair Cello Player – I played the violin for 9 years, but quit after my finger broke in a rugby game (we won that game, so I was happy :P). I still play it as a hobby, and I’m helping out in our school play as a first violinist, but I’m not playing it seriously. No music supplements or anything like that.
10) An absolute absence of personable qualities or speaking skills – I would like to imagine that I have personable qualities, but I think the majority of my friends would classify me as annoying (in a friendly way :P). I’ve been debating for 5 years now, and though I’m by no means an expert on speaking, I would consider myself able enough to present a case for or against nearly any topic.
11) Massive number of volunteer hours – Well, for volunteering at the school, I probably have over my high school career, more than 500 hours for SC, and probably several hundred more for organizing other school events, leading the MC club, etc. I enjoyed everything… Well, ALMOST everything I did 
Some of the the endless debates in SC did get quite boring after awhile -_-</p>
<p>I guess overall, though I have Asian qualities, I would say I’m not quite like other Asians. This is probably due to the fact that I was born and raised in Canada my whole life, and I don’t really connect well with other Asians that have just immigrated here.</p>
<p>The whole economics thing is not very true. I live in a upper middle class area and the black students (including myself) come from families that have gone to college and are successful. Heck a few drive mercedes and beemers, yet at the same time these are the same minorities who dress as thugs and do not do well academically. The top students at my school are all Asian and white (except for myself), so I do not think that economics is as big an effect as people think. I think that is just a cope out, sure for some minorities economics plays a role but for the ones who are actually admitted from what I hear are the minorities who came from more affulent backgrounds bc they have stats like the Asians.</p>
<p>I honestly just think that Asians are getting a raw deal :/</p>