<p>^^^Thanks for the update, that change will hopefully make things clearer for students of mixed race/ethnicity!</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for your answers. I apologize for posting in the wrong area, but it is always good that this thread is bumped because it contains so much vital information.</p>
<p>Does religion count?</p>
<p>No, it doesn’t.</p>
<p>No, sorry…</p>
<p>No but it should.</p>
<p>According to my parents, jews are right under asians in terms of stereotypically being smart, so I’m actually at a disadvantage.</p>
<p>it should jews have been oppressed more than any other people (whether you consider it a race or religion) in history</p>
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<p>That’s not necissarily true. There are a lot of people that have been persecuted against for thousands of years, it’s just we hear more about the Jews because of the Holocaust.</p>
<p>no it shouldn’t because 98.3% of Jews attend a higher form of education…as opposed to a much percentage of african americans/hispanics</p>
<p>…also the Palestinians might quickly be taking that award for the most oppressed people…considering palestine is the longest occupation in world history</p>
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<p>What do you think “count as URM” means in actual practice? </p>
<p>The federal government does not track “Jewish” as an ethnic category that must be reported by colleges. Read the first few posts of this FAQ thread for more general information.</p>
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<p>I don’t believe that it is, and I don’t believe that it should be. That is my absolute answer. However, if we want to get into nuances, I do support the citizens of a state’s right to influence the way the school does admissions, preferably by electing people to boards who understand the situation, not by litigation which nobody really understands what they’re voting for. I do not believe it should be a meritocracy because, as has been shown, once somebody is “good enough” various standards of measurable merit are irrelevant to ability. </p>
<p>But I 100% support the rights of private schools to build their classes without having to adhere to any individual standard of merit, so long as their is no malicious intent (as there would be if the assertions of asian discrimination are true). </p>
<p>And I just want to defend fabrizio, though we used to have our most heated and sometimes bitter disagreements, his argument does not stem out of “anger” but out of idealism. </p>
<p>But Kelix, the point that I keep asserting is that nobody is being penalized (provided discrimination against asians does not exist) in a holistic admissions process. He is only has a “lower chance” because his interests lead him to an area where it is incredibly difficult to distinguish himself. However in holistic admissions, as impersonal as it sounds, it is not about the individual. Any individuals chance with respect to another it totally irrelevant, which is why it is important not to become hooked on this idea that one top school is better than another, which more than anything is just a self-fulfilling prophecy. </p>
<p>Holistic admissions is about the class. Until you understand that we can’t possibly get on the same page because your arguments will not be based in reality.</p>
<p>Tyler09, we will have to agree to disagree on the issue of negative discrimination against Asians. There is no concrete evidence either way, but anecdotal evidence leads me to my position (obviously not yours). Regarding holistic admissions, I assure you I understand the concept–and as proof I quote my last post:
In fact, given the supposed propensity of Asians excelling in math/science, they should be even more overrepresented in those fields–that they aren’t is indirect evidence of discrimination, because the Asian engineer is indistinguishable only if you know that he is Asian. If you are saying that Asians have other commonalities–playing violin/piano, for instance–that’s fine, I understand the need not to have a bunch of classical-musician engineers (we need some classical-literature engineers too). I approve entirely of holistic admissions and of private schools’ right to shape a class, but not by grouping protected classes (and if you do not group by said classes, you cannot say that it is “difficult to distinguish himself” because what would he need to distinguish himself from?).</p>
<p>So let us throw out the idea of merit; I happen to disagree, but I understand your viewpoint. Other than selecting for individual diversity, how would a school choose the X number of engineers needed for a diverse class? I believe in the rights of private schools to build their classes however they like–as long as they don’t violate the 14th Amendment. If you want more URM or female engineers, put money into recruiting them; don’t admit all those that apply and are qualified, because that is racial/gender discrimination. (I have discussed single-sex schools in a previous post and would rather not get into that, as it’s an issue of segregation rather than affirmative action.)</p>
<p>Re: #1045 ivayhopeful</p>
<p>My history is a bit rusty but which Palestinian country was occupied and for how long?</p>
<p>As an Asian, I feel that there is some reverse discrimination in terms of college admissions but it only makes us, at least my sons, work harder to stand out better among the applicants.</p>
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<p>Thank you, Tyler. That’s a correct representation of my stance on this issue.</p>
<p>In addition to a race-blind society, I also support the ideal of meritocracy: “…wherever each man has earned recognition he is singled out for public service in accordance with the claims of distinction, not by rotation but by merit, nor when it comes to poverty, if a man has real ability to benefit the city, is he prevented by obscure renown” (Perikles’s funeral oration).</p>
<p>“Numbers” are but a subset of merit. Superior writing ability isn’t a part of numbers, but it is definitely a valid component of merit. The same applies for demonstrated excellence in extracurriculars. As I have defined it, I believe meritocracy encourages all to truly be the best they can be.</p>
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<p>That’s a very Confucian way of looking at the issue. As a Chinese, I agree that we should always strive to work harder. But what if the additional efforts are not being rewarded? Professor Jerry Kang of UCLA terms “negative action” the practice of treating Asian applicants worse than equally qualified white applicants. Yes, hard work is good, but if the system is bent against you in the slightest way, then you should fight it.</p>
<p>^ And this Confucian attitude is admirable but also why I feel Asians are traditionally underrepresented in advocacy–why I disagree with MattsMomFL about the implied uselessness of arguing AA on this forum.</p>
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<p>I was going to take a break from posting in this thread at least through the inauguration, but I can’t bring myself to pass by an opportunity to educate anyone who might be learning about Questbridge. I literally owe my child’s future to this organization. </p>
<p>Around <strong>40%</strong> of applicants are accepted as finalists. Around <strong>65%</strong> of the Finalists are accepted by either Match or ED I, II/EA/Regular Decision to one of QB’s 26 partner schools. I honestly think that most low income (under 60K w/obstacles) CCers are up to the challenge - white/black/hispanic/asian/middle eastern. I have also noticed that <em>very</em> few race undeclareds get very far in the process, but it is impossible to know how many started the process - I suspect though from reading Tokenadult’s acceptance numbers at other schools that it may be that this is just not part of their philosophy.</p>
<p>does a half hispanic, half white person have just as good of a chance of being accepted as a hispanic as a full hispanic does? (if that made sense)</p>
<p>From what I understand, as long as the college can claim you as a minority, it doesn’t really matter your percentage. Unless it’s a decision between you and a full hispanic person, or you and a half minority that is rare-er, such as Native American, I doubt it will matter…
I’m caucasian, African American, and Native American. I know that colleges still consider me a minority. I don’t know whether they count me as African American or Native American, but I am still as minoritized (yes, made up word) as anyone else, I believe. However, would they choose a full-blooded Native American over me, if they had equal stats? Yes, they would.</p>
<p>They will ask you if you consider yourself Hispanic. Whatever you say will be the way you are categorized.</p>