what to do with a broken Mac (from a spill)?

Parent Cafe
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<p>mousegray, I disagree with u<em>u</em>dad about the limited use of netbooks since, frankly, most people have limited uses for their computers. The usefulness of a netbook depends on which model you choose since they come in all shapes and sizes. He’s right, they don’t have CD/DVD, but you can get an external drive that is inexpensive, or hook up to another computer to share a drive.</p>

<p>You can read about them here:
[Netbook</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netbook]Netbook”>Netbook - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>For students, I would recommend the larger netbooks that use Windows XP operating system. </p>

<p>Figure out what your student would like to do with her computer. Word processing? Quite frankly, I prefer the slightly smaller keyboard on my netbook. Internet access for research and staying in touch with friends. Again, a netbook is fine. Editing graphics for projects in a design class, no–she’d probably benefit from a larger screen so the netbook wouldn’t be a good choice. Running Eclipse and editing very large and complicating programming code, no–she’d probably like a larger screen and the fastest processor she could get her hands on, so not a netbook. Editing photos for posting online, a netbook would be fine. Doing simple code for websites, a netbook is probably fine.</p>

<p>I think that people often get over sold on technology. For writing papers and taking notes, the computer doesn’t need a lot of power and inexpensive computers can work really well. Of course, Steve Jobs said, “We [Apple] don’t know how to make a $500 computer that’s not a piece of junk.” But now they are trying to enter the netbook market as well, and they have been shutting down web sites that describe how to install Mac OS on non-Mac hardware, like netbooks.</p>

<p>BTW, Bunsenburner is right that cleaning up the old Dell would make it faster. Norton makes SystemWorks, which might help. There are other products available as well.</p>

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<p>“We [Apple] don’t know how to make a $500 computer that’s not a piece of junk.” But now they are trying to enter the netbook market as well, and they have been shutting down web sites that describe how to install Mac OS on non-Mac hardware, like netbooks."</p>

<p>Their netbook is rumored to be above the $500 price-point.</p>

<p>“But now they are trying to enter the netbook market as well, and they have been shutting down web sites that describe how to install Mac OS on non-Mac hardware, like netbooks.”</p>

<p>Well, people are stealing their software. Microsoft does the same thing and is far more aggressive about it.</p>

<p>The bigger problem with running Windows on older computers is the CPU cycles needed to run antimalware. I just read the latest on Conficker and their botnet has been activated at a low level to send email spam and install additional spyware. Security experts believe that conficker is run by a professional organization and that it will be a problem for a very long time. I’m running full Ad-Aware, Malwarebytes and Spybot S&D scans on my home desktop - something that I usually do once a week. These take several hours to run.</p>

<p>One other thing about netbooks with flash memory. Flash typically is better for reads than writes as writes and operations that are write intensive will suffer greatly in performance compared to conventional hard drives.</p>

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<p>BC, consider whether a netbook that is priced over $500 is perhaps overselling technology when a computer priced under $500 has been shown to successfully run the same OS and applications. Also, consider the person who buys a Mac but spills water on it and is charged over $700 to fix it. If that person buys a cheap netbook and puts the Mac OS from the broken computer onto the new computer, is that stealing software or is it merely in violation of what may be an overly restrictive license agreement? (Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman wrote some funny stuff about software license agreements in “Good Omens”) </p>

<p>I’m not trying to bash Apple, love it, hate it, live with it, who cares. I’m just trying to present alternatives so that people can make well informed decisions. I think that Apple entering the market and going to the trouble of shutting down the use of its OS on nonMac netbooks shows that the platform is a valid one ‘with legs’ and that the computers are robust enough to be valid for lots of applications and operating systems. Really, not trying to bash Apple at all–I use both Apple and nonApple PCs. But, for example, if you need a compact car, you don’t have to buy a Maserati. (But if you want a Maserati and can afford it, have fun!)</p>

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<p>“BC, consider whether a netbook that is priced over $500 is perhaps overselling technology when a computer priced under $500 has been shown to successfully run the same OS and applications.”</p>

<p>That’s not the point. Apple makes its margins by selling the hardware and essentially giving away the operating system. My expectations on the Mac netbook will be similar to that of your typical Dell, HP, Asus product as they all run the Atom processor which is a marvel of technology but it still is only an in-order processor.</p>

<p>“Also, consider the person who buys a Mac but spills water on it and is charged over $700 to fix it.”</p>

<p>I suggested asking about the cost of a Depot repair earlier. I didn’t see a response to this. That said, stuff breaks if you’re not careful. I have three MacBook Pros, $2K, $2K and $3K (with some student discounts). The cheap ones are used by the kids (college students). They are very careful with their hardware. If one died, I’d give them mine to use until theirs could be fixed. I was quoted $320 to replace the motherboard in the past on a MacBook Pro - Apple covered the cost as it was due to a design defect by nVidia. That’s seems to be a reasonable price to fix the water damage unless a short took out additional components. If it wasn’t repairable at reasonable cost, then I’d just get them a new one. Mine’s a 17 inch model and I don’t think that they’d like to lug that around with them.</p>

<p>“If that person buys a cheap netbook and puts the Mac OS from the broken computer onto the new computer, is that stealing software or is it merely in violation of what may be an overly restrictive license agreement?”</p>

<p>That’s their business model. You agree to it when you use their products. If you want to be a thief, that’s your business until Apple bricks your computer. I’m a software engineer and I get paid when our customers buy our products. We don’t get paid if they steal them.</p>

<p>“I’m just trying to present alternatives so that people can make well informed decisions. I think that Apple entering the market and going to the trouble of shutting down the use of its OS on nonMac netbooks shows that the platform is a valid one ‘with legs’ and that the computers are robust enough to be valid for lots of applications and operating systems.”</p>

<p>They have a business model - if you don’t like it, find another companies business model. There are plenty of them out there. You could even write your own operating system. Apple doesn’t want to deal with the problems of foreign hardware. That’s reasonable.</p>

<p>People steal IP all the time. Microsoft fights just as hard over IP and what you can use and where you can use it.</p>

<p>“Really, not trying to bash Apple at all–I use both Apple and nonApple PCs. But, for example, if you need a compact car, you don’t have to buy a Maserati.”</p>

<p>There may be valid reasons to buy a product that you haven’t thought of.</p>

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<p>Momof3: It was your original thread that convinced me to buy the insurance.</p>

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<p>BC, of course there are reasons to buy all kinds of products that haven’t occurred to me nor to you. I keep saying that people should buy whatever they want after they learn about all of their options, for whatever reasons make them happy. Sorry that bothers you. I’m also sorry that you don’t recognize the humor in license agreements that Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman found. </p>

<p>BTW, Mac OS X costs $129.00 from the Apple online store and the license agreement allows you to “install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time”. Does “Apple-labeled” mean I can pull the sticker off a granny smith at the grocery store and put it on my netbook and then install the Mac OS X that I legally bought from the Apple store and so now own? If Nike sold shoelaces that we had to agree to put only in Nike shoes, wouldn’t that be the least bit funny to you? All kinds of companies sell “loss leaders” in the hopes of getting people to buy the “cash cows”, but most of those loss leaders don’t come with restrictive ownership agreements. And no, I don’t need a lecture about why software is different from shoelaces, but feel free to give it if it makes you happy. One of my first coding projects was a directory function for a CP/M-like OS at a small business computing company so I think I get it well enough to see both the purpose and the humor in those agreements.</p>

<p>And I totally agree with you that people who don’t like the business model should find a different company to do business with. It is reasonable to do so.</p>

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<p>People often never learn about what all of their options and costs
are but you do learn a little more about what you like and don’t
like about a system after you buy one and use it for a while.</p>

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<p>One could infer, from the recent actions of Apple’s legal department,
that this isn’t the case. The recent appointments to the Obama Justice
Department imply that copyright enforcement will increase rather than
decrease.</p>

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<p>Businesses are free to impose whatever restrictions they want to on
their products. There are pragmatic and legal factors that determine
the level of success that they will have with their policies.</p>

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<p>Shoelaces are different from software.</p>

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<p>Yes, you condone theft.</p>

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<p>When did I condone anything BC? To say that something is possible does not mean that it is acceptable. To ask if a license agreement is humorous or overly restrictive does not suggest that anyone should disregard the agreement if they chose to enter into such an agreement in the first place. To question vague terminology is not theft. It’s hilarious how you defend Apple by libeling me when all I’ve done is suggest less expensive alternative hardware and a different operating system that is less restrictive about what you can do after you purchase it! I don’t agree with your approach of buying something expensive without first learning what other options exist, some of us have to watch our pennies.</p>

<p>Since you mention copyright problems, the good folks at Wikipedia have this to report: "Although Apple has previously taken legal action regarding such installations (see Psystar), a February 2009 federal court ruling may result in the eventual removal of this restriction.[73:<a href="IT news, careers, business technology, reviews | Computerworld You’ll notice that Apple is being accused of abusing copyright laws. Hey, maybe book publishers should issue license agreements against reading in the tub since they don’t want to deal with the problems of unreadable pages and warped covers that can occur when books get wet. Then people who read in the tub can be accused of copyright infringement. I like that idea. My next book will come with a special, expensive book-reading lounger and anyone who suggests that the book could be read on a park bench will be shut down. :slight_smile: ROFL And of course Nike doesn’t want to be sued when you take their shoelaces out of a pair of hightops, put them into a pair of Adidas lowtops and then trip on the excess lace! (Don’t bother with the Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman book if you don’t have a sense of humor.)</p>

<p>Maybe cloud computing will put your argument to rest, but probably not. Still, I think students should learn more about their cloud computing options so that they don’t have to worry as much about hardware platforms or failure. There’s Buzzword for word processing and salesforce.com offers a developer license for databases. Picnik for photo editing. Google apps for those who like Google…the list goes on.</p>

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<p>OK you two, take it outside.</p>

<p>I do appreciate the advice you’ve all given me for my particular problem, so thanks for that. This other stuff, eh.</p>

<p>I’m starting to suspect that Apple is a cult.</p>

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<p>

LOL!!! My H thinks the exact same thing. I love my Mac and he hates anything Apple. He uses an old rickety rackety PC that he built himself and swears it is the best thing on earth.</p>

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<p>I think I am coming over to the dark side. We have been Dell family for a long time, until I got my husband the Mac Air. He loves it and I like to use it when we are on vacation. D1’s Dell is about to die, so I am debating between Mac and Mac Pro.</p>

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<p>oldfort, I have a Macbook Pro, but in retrospect, a Macbook would have been fine for my needs, and considerably cheaper. I don’t use probably 80% of the stuff my computer came with. Someday, when I have the time and inclination, I will learn it, just in time for it to become obsolete, I’m sure!</p>

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<p>I’ve gotten some new info from my D concerning her computer that has me scratching my head (once again). I’ve gotten some great advice here, so I thought I’d resurrect this thread and see what some of you think of this. </p>

<p>Apparently, after speaking with Apple again, it turns out that the logic board needs to be replaced on her Macbook (for $790). But – her computer still works with a different keyboard plugged in. D says that some of the keys of her Macbook do not type since the spill, but plugging in a separate keyboard fixes this problem. Everything on her computer works fine when she does this!</p>

<p>So, why does she need a new logic board if everything on the computer except the keyboard works? (and a logic board is the same thing as a mother board, right?) She could theoretically continue using it as is, with a separate keyboard, although it is a bit cumbersome. She borrowed the keyboard from her college, so I guess we will have to buy one when she gets home, if she continues to use it this way. (The alternatives would be have it fixed at nearly the price of a new one, or buy a new computer.)</p>

<p>Any insight into this or suggestions as to what to do at this point?</p>

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<p>^^ That doesn’t make much sense to me. It sounds as if it’s just the keyboard that’s defective which makes sense since it was a spill. I suggest she take it someplace where they’re willing to just replace the keyboard. I’m not an Apple expert but I think Apple’s ‘all wet’ on this one.</p>

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<p>Not sure about spills, but my D’s brand new Macbook (one month old) fell off the bed of the inn where we were staying the night before her move in at NYU and the screen broke. Apple said it would cost about $800 for a new screen, even though we bought the extended warranty, which doesn’t cover accidents.</p>

<p>A guy at an Apple store referred me here, and I got an entirely new and perfectly great screen (can’t tell it from the original) for about $200:</p>

<p>[iPhone</a> and iPod Repairs, MacBook and MacBook (Pro) Repairs | PSP Repairs](<a href=“http://www.iresq.com/]iPhone”>http://www.iresq.com/)</p>

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<p>Thanks, NotMamaRose. I’m beginning to think Apple has a repair scam going on. Why would they charge $800 for a new screen?</p>

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<p>“So, why does she need a new logic board if everything on the computer except the keyboard works?”</p>

<p>An external keyboard uses a different interface than the internal keyboard and perhaps the circuitry on the logic board for the internal keyboard was damaged. When you plug in a keyboard, you’re using a USB port which goes through different circuitry. Replacing the keyboard won’t fix the problem if the interface on the logic board is faulty.</p>

<p>$790 seems high for a logic board replacement.</p>

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<p>BCEagle, I’m trying to visualize what you said… so there is more than one circuitry for the computer to work from? It seems illogical to me, but then again I don’t know anything about the internal workings.</p>

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<p>There’s a picture of a desktop motherboard at <a href=“http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/13-128-084-04.jpg[/url]”>http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/13-128-084-04.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>On the lower left, you’ll see a purple connector for a PS/2 keyboard which is normally the default keyboard for older desktops. You can also plug in a USB keyboard in one of the USB 2.0 ports to the right. As you can see, these are in different places and they probably have different control circuits so it is possible to damage one without damaging the other. On laptops that I’ve opened up, there’s usually a ribbon cable that goes from the keyboard to the motherboard and I can’t imagine that the internal KB would use the same circuitry that the USB ports use.</p>

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<p>Very interesting, thanks, BCEagle. It looks like a little power plant! So, I’m deducing from this that since the circuitry for the USB port was not damaged, she could continue using her laptop with an external keyboard with no further damage to the computer. Why can’t they just replace the damaged circuitry, or is it all welded together or something?</p>