So few people can play sports at a professional level. Like 1 in a million. Add that to the fact that the transgender community is a small compared to the majority. The chances of a transgender woman being able to play sports on a professional level would be like hitting the lottery(like it already is for everyone else). So the chance of transgender women talking over women sports is a nonfactor. Where do people come up with these things?
I would think that a major potential problem for trans men would be testosterone supplements, for those that use them, and doping regulations.
I find it difficult to think of a male sport in which a trans man would have an innate advantage.
I cannot imagine that a person would undergo everything involved with transitioning in order to gain advantage in a sport.
Not in collegiate sports and not in this country, Consolation. But… Remember the German swimmers?
19 - I did not know that. 60 Minutes said she was recruited for the swim team and had a scholarship. The story didn't go into more detail than that.
I find it amusing that some people think it’s going to work to have women in military ground combat, while the genders aren’t allowed to compete with each other in sports. Many sports players are in top physical condition. If men and women are truly equal physically, then they should have them compete in co-ed teams.
20 - Kaitlyn Jenner could have. If a person builds up their muscles as a man, does muscular strength diminish significantly if female hormones are taken? And a person does not have to take female hormones to become transgendered, if he chooses not to. If a person still has natural testosterone would that disqualify that person in a female competition?
I agree it is a non-issue because of the low numbers and the low chances of it ever becoming an issue in sports. (Although we have Jenner, the Harvard swimmer and Renee Richards as examples already).
I hope every single person who comments on this thread takes time to read the links that ucb posted.
No one is going to go through all of those requirements just to get a possible advantage. They’re just not. The amount of time, effort, and medical treatments/procedures that goes into transitioning (broadly defined) is time away from your sport and it can take a huge toll on your body. I have several friends who have transitioned and physically it isn’t easy.
As someone who was an athlete for a very long time and who has been around professional athletes my whole life, I can tell you that almost 0% of athletes would wilingly put their bodies through that just to get some sort of likely non-existent advantage. Not to mention the social cost of living as a trans individual- the constant threat of violence, the bullying, the exclusion, etc
@TatinG My point is being Bruce Jenner is a one in a million chance. Being Kaitlyn Jenner is a one in a billion chance. Only a small amount of people can play sports on that level. That’s why they are paid millions of dollars to do it. So the idea of transgender women taking over female sports is far fetched to me.
@BunsenBurner, they weren’t transitioning to male: they were doped.
@albert69, men and women do not have to be identical to be sufficiently physically able to do a job. Everyone is on a continuum: some men are weaker physically than some women.
Amongst the criteria in hiring anyone for a job requiring physical skill should be are they good enough. Enough should be established in a realistic and rational manner. If a rifle weighs 20 lbs, and it could be made to weigh 8 lbs with no loss of function and durability, it benefits all soldiers if it weighs less. Does a pack really need to weigh 40 lbs? If it does, fine. If it doesn’t, it shouldn’t, because everyone who carries one will benefit.
Being lazy and hidebound about such stuff could result in the elimination of candidates, male and female, who may bring OTHER skills to the table that would greatly benefit a military unit.
Yes, soldiers and firefighters et al need to be able to achieve physical standards. But the standards should be intelligently and realistically determined.
Of course they were… And the results were tragic. It could be a form of “legalized doping.” Not in the US, not in collegiate sports. In the Olympics and in other high-level competitions where there is a lot at stake. Still a hypothetical scenario, but not absolutely unlikely.
Professional men tennis player ranked 500 will easily beat any women tennis player. For starters, women will not be able to return men’s serves.
Now should we discuss chess where no muscle mass is involved? Women champions may be very unhappy if some man will try to take their livelihood away. They make prize money in women-only tournament although they compete against the men too.
27 Very true. The chances of another Bruce/Kaitlyn Jenner coming on the scene is very small. But if it did, and if that transgender person started winning over female athletes, I do think the females would feel it was unfair.
I don’t know how greatly muscle mass diminishes with hormone therapy involved. And no I don’t think anyone would do this just to gain a competitive advantage. Athletes need to be out there training which all the surgeries would intefere with.
@BunsenBurner, I have no doubt that there are regimes out there that would force it…look at the history of eunuchs and castrati. (And no, before anyone gets riled up, I am NOT saying or implying that trans women or men are either of those things.)
There was an interesting piece related to this topic on 60 Minutes recently, the case of a top female swimmer, recruited to swim at Harvard, who changed gender identity to male, and was allowed to continue on scholarship on the men’s swim team…an interesting perspective.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-harvard-transgender-swimmer-schuyler-bailar/
And then there’s this story of a Bates (NESCAC D3) transgender athlete:
http://athletics.bates.edu/scholar_athlete_society/2015_Keelin_Godsey
Re: #33 and http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-harvard-transgender-swimmer-schuyler-bailar/
Wasn’t this brought up in reply #16?
Also, Harvard scholarships (as they call them) are need-based financial aid (not merit or athletic scholarships).
From the above article: "Godsey came out as transgender before the beginning of his senior year with the Bates women’s track and field team in 2005, changing his name from Kelly to Keelin and his self-identification from female to male. His experiences before 2005 and since then, from athletic feats to personal trials, are recounted in a special report published in the May 28, 2012 issue of Sports Illustrated, “The Transgender Athlete.”
After graduating from Bates, Keelin continued to compete in the women’s hammer throw. He finished seventh in the 2008 Olympic Trials and followed that with a fifth-place finish in the 2012 Olympic Trials. In 2011, he finished third at the USATF Nationals and represented the United States in the Pan Am Games, where he finished fifth."
Question – if Kelly/Keelin changed self-identification from female to male, then why did he continue to compete as a woman? Was it for the athletic advantage (there would be one if he had hormone injections)?
(oh sorry, didn’t see #16 - and not up to speed on what Harvard calls their scholarships. Just watching the story is all. forgive me)
“Remember Renée Richards, a transgender woman who played professional women’s tennis in the 1970s.”
I do very well. She was never number one or even in the top 10 so there was obviously many women who had no trouble beating her.
@CCDD14 And your supporting data for this is…?