<p>FF, I suspect we are on the road to a nuclear war myself, but it will be in good part due to our meddling in the hornet’s nest of the middle east.</p>
<p>“Hopefully this attack will be something as relatively “benign” as a subway attack.”</p>
<p>Thanks, Pal.</p>
<p>“However, if the experts are correct, it will be more likely a nuclear or biological atack with far more victims than 9/11.”</p>
<p>The one we hear most about is “a dirty bomb in Times Square.” I work right, smack, dab in Times Square. I am so deathly sick of the threat of terrorism and so deathly sick of parsing words and teensy, tiny, meaningless disagreements when the big things aren’t fixed.</p>
<p>Ah, Pearl Harbor. And the “new” Pearl Harbor. Hmmm.</p>
<p>
Not here. In fact, outside of Iraq, where would you note a historical increase in terrorism?</p>
<p>"Well zoosermom, our actions post 9/11 have increased terrorism and anti-American sentiment world-wide to unprecedented levels. Whatever justification people had for wanting revenge aftrer 9/11 (and I had a friend on AA 11, and was fighting mad for awhile) has long been lost in the mired mess we have created.</p>
<p>The threat of terrorism is much greater now than it was,e ven right after 9/11. The US invasion of Iraq has turned that nation into a breeding ground for terrorists, which is nothing short of insane.</p>
<p>So, it seems that people who fear terrorism ought to look to the source."</p>
<p>I respectfully disagree. But that’s ok. I find you insightful and interesting.</p>
<p>“FF, I suspect we are on the road to a nuclear war myself, but it will be in good part due to our meddling in the hornet’s nest of the middle east.”</p>
<p>I also harbor that suspicion, but I think the path began 30 years ago. The letter from Ahmadinejad was fascinating. Utterly fascinating. Some people are calling it, in the historical context, a declaration of war.</p>
<p>Thank you, zoos. Your arguments aren’t too bad either.</p>
<p>Here, driver, this is for you:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/26/AR2005042601623.html[/url]”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/26/AR2005042601623.html</a></p>
<p>link 1 of 49,800,000</p>
<p>Let me know if you would like to read more, LOL!</p>
<p>“Thank you, zoos. Your arguments aren’t too bad either.”</p>
<p>I’d like to tell you how much I appreciate the courtesy. I work in a heavy-duty-liberal law firm (which I love, by the way) and I am used to not being treated so courteously on matters of politics. We won’t even discuss the fact that I could never have a bumper sticker or a lawn sign, and I’ve endured some serious abuse by wearing a campaign button on my coat. I always love to hear points of view that differ from mine, for the information value, and I appreciate people who share their views without attempting a forced conversion.</p>
<p>We’re rehashing the same issues again, so let me ask this question of the conservatives:</p>
<p>I am assuming that you are fiscally conservative and want less government not more, see terrorism as one of our biggest problems today, are patriotic and want to support our troops, and would like a bright future for our children. So, as W continues to increase the size of government and government spending (25% increase since he took office), as we generate more terrorists because of our bungling international relationships with our arrogance, and because troops are dying in pursuit of a war to make W look like a real “decider,” what more will it take to see him as the Emporer without clothes, to see the incompetence for what it is, and to see that the future of the USA is cloudy because of the tremendous debt being incurred (over 8 Trillion dollars - more than $30,000 per person in the US)?</p>
<p>How much more can you take and still be a stout defender?</p>
<p>allmusic, for all your self described elite education, you still didn’t answer the questions.</p>
<p>wharfrat and dad, me too.</p>
<p>funding and zoos, alltoonz is still asleep apparently, therefore is unaware that the world trade center and pentagon were attacked by terrorists, killing thousands of people and claiming their going to kill more next time.</p>
<p>Has anyone written, called or personally visited their elected officials? served in our military or some organization with the purpose of making a difference for what they believe in? organized a civil or civic action to voice that same concern or belief to those with the power to implement policy or law? …</p>
<p>or just post in the anonymous safety of chatrooms and messegeboards?</p>
<p>I need to point out that I can see how people can have differing opinions on issues - sometimes very different. Some of us are liberal, some are conservative, we all have similar values. I hope I can respect views other than mine (and sometimes even be persuaded by these views).</p>
<p>But the one thing I don’t understand is how people cannot see W for what he is: just plain not suited to be President of these United States.</p>
<p>" am assuming that you are fiscally conservative and want less government not more, see terrorism as one of our biggest problems today, are patriotic and want to support our troops, and would like a bright future for our children. So, as W continues to increase the size of government and government spending (25% increase since he took office), as we generate more terrorists because of our bungling international relationships with our arrogance, and because troops are dying in pursuit of a war to make W look like a real “decider,” what more will it take to see him as the Emporer without clothes, to see the incompetence for what it is, and to see that the future of the USA is cloudy because of the tremendous debt being incurred (over 8 Trillion dollars - more than $30,000 per person in the US)?"</p>
<p>I thought this was asked and answered in the beginning of the thread. I think Bush is a bust on fiscal issues, think he has sold out small government conservatives, and categorically disagree with the contention that there are more terrorists now or that his actions have made any material difference in the view that other countries hold of America. I don’t presume to ascribe motive to another human being, so I’ll leave that alone, and the deficit causes me to lose sleep.</p>
<p>“Has anyone written, called or personally visited their elected officials? served in our military or some organization with the purpose of making a difference for what they believe in? organized a civil or civic action to voice that same concern or belief to those with the power to implement policy or law? …”</p>
<p>Yes I have. I am known by my local newspaper as an “outspoken activist” on a specific issue.</p>
<p>hardknox - </p>
<p>I’ve worked in local and national campaigns; I’ve participated in public demonstrations supporting my values; I’ve organized and served in anti-Viet-Nam war organizations; I’ve served two years as a CO in an alternate-service job; I’ve had my graduate school education derailed by politics; and I even have a peace symbol tatooed on my body so that if I am not totally decomposed at some point in the future and people dig up my grave they will know then exactly how I felt. </p>
<p>And I feel like I’ve done nothing compared to the commitment of so many. So don’t go down that path…</p>
<p>“But the one thing I don’t understand is how people cannot see W for what he is: just plain not suited to be President of these United States.”</p>
<p>If that immigration bill is passed by Memorial Day, as threatened by Bill Frist, and W signs it then I will have no choice but to agree with you.</p>
<p>“I am assuming that you are fiscally conservative and want less government not more, see terrorism as one of our biggest problems today, are patriotic and want to support our troops, and would like a bright future for our children. So, as W continues to increase the size of government and government spending (25% increase since he took office)”<br>
Dig, everything is relative. While Bush has spent money, the opposition party is not faulting him for spending it - they are faulting him for not spending enough. His two biggest domestic spending bills were increases for education and prescription drugs. The Dems biggest complaint is that the programs didn’t go far enough and not enough money has been spent. So, in light of the alternative, Bush looks pretty darned good.</p>
<p>“While Bush has spent money, the opposition party is not faulting him for spending it - they are faulting him for not spending enough. His two biggest domestic spending bills were increases for education and prescription drugs. The Dems biggest complaint is that the programs didn’t go far enough and not enough money has been spent. So, in light of the alternative, Bush looks pretty darned good.”</p>
<p>That is absolutely true and a heckuva good point, but I had such higher hopes (cue whining).</p>
<p>Zoos, I love a good discussion, as long as people play nice. I don’t enjoy condescension either, and appreciate a courteous tone to posts, which you maintain.</p>
<p>Hardknox, since when does my education come into play in this discussion?</p>
<p>I worked tirelessly on the election of 2004. I have written and called my representatives. I have been meeting with a group of activitists since 2003 (fat lot of good it has done, but we do enjoy commiserating).</p>
<p>3000 people were killed on 9/11. No one can undermine the depth of feeling people have for that day, or for our loss as a nation. But, we are responsible for hte deaths of anwhere from 10x that many, or many more. Think of the loss of blood and treasure of American lives…, MORE than the loss of lives on 9/11.</p>
<p>So, when people bring up the death count on 9/11, I think we should remember the American lives, and the Iraqi and Afgani lives, lost while fighting this (senseless) war.</p>
<p>zoos, alltunz, dig - I aplaud your involvement and looks like we both have taken an active role in being part of a solution. Please understand that the biggest point of my original post is to incite thought relative to action (as you and others have done)… and solicit contributions to this thread that suggest solutions instead of the usual bickering, whining, fingerpointing, partisan bs or blind egotism.</p>
<p>I have voted in every election, national and local, since I became eligible many, many years ago. As Howard Dean says, voting earns you a “C” in citizenship. I’m sorry to say that until a few years ago that was the end of it. W has made an activist of me. I now write letters to the editor, hold up signs on the street, write letters and make phone calls to strangers and friends, work on local campaigns, and try to be as well-informed as I can. I’ve contributed a great deal of money to two presidential candidates and to a dozen or so candidates for Congress, mostly from other states, and to local candidates. I’m probably up to a B, but that’s about all I can manage with two young children, a full-time job, and a husband with serious health issues. I was asked last year to run for mayor of our small town. I roared with laughter at the thought, as did my friends. I’m considered “unelectable” because of my tendency to be outspoken. Running for office would have earned me an “A” in Dean’s book, but I can’t imagine that I’ll ever do so.</p>