What would be best IVY (3 years) or State School for 1 year before Med School

[omslcm]

I appreciated the help from those that were helpful! Not sure I’m 100% which way to shoot for but at least I think we can’t go wrong either way!

[i_wanna_be_Brown]

If you’re still deciding between 1 year state school and 3 years Ivy then you can’t go right either way.

[thumper1]

Actually, I think the Ivy for three years trumps the state school for 1.

At least with the Ivy for three, the kid wouldn’t be taking the MCAT during the high school senior year…and applying to med schools right when college is beginning…or sooner.

[mathyone]

Pretty much everyone was helpful. You’re just not appreciating that.

[i_wanna_be_Brown]

@thumper1 Ivy for 3 is definitely better than state school for 1 but I would argue any top 200 school for 4 is better than Ivy for 3, and in some scenario where Ivy for 3 really is better then a gap year such that it’s still 4 years between college and medical school.

Then again, I’m speaking from the point if view of what would be best for the OP’s child if medical school is the goal. Since the OP doesn’t want medical school maybe I should agree that they can’t go wrong with their current choices.

[apprenticeprof]

This is probably an exercise in futility,but let me try putting things a little differently:

OP, there was a time in the not too distant past when it was fairly easy to get a white-collar job without a college degree. That isn’t the case today, and it isn’t because you really need a BA to be a good HR representative. It is because as more middle-class people began going to college, there generally wasn’t a good reason to hire someone without a degree over the many, many applicants with one.

Similarly, med schools have their pick of loads of extremely qualified candidates. Quite a few of those candidates aren’t going to be accepted. So, even if your child gets good MCAT scores and has a good GPA - which will be true of many, many other applicants, and which will be harder to get if he or she tries to rush things anyway – why would a school choose a kid with three semesters of a reasonably rigorous college, high-school level extracurriculars, and a transcript made up largely of courses from an unimpressive local school over a student who had proved him or herself through four years of demanding college courses while pursuing relevant ECs and increasing in maturity?

The majority of Ivy league students could probably graduate at least a semester early. Very few do, because even if you don’t value the college experience, for someone aspiring to competitive professions, you want as much time as possible to build up an impressive record.

You might get away with three years in an Ivy (or at the state school, for that matter). You will not get away with three semesters in a state school.

[mathyone]

OP, I think you haven’t explained to us why you are so sure your son would be accepted so early to med school. You seem to take this as a given and we think you are very misguided. Just because you know of a 20 year old at the med school you toured doesn’t mean that any young kid who has completed the bare minimum requirements is going to be accepted. I know someone who graduated from an Ivy at age 17 and completed a PhD in a tippy top program at 21. I know someone who was admitted to Harvard without a high school diploma. Does this mean that every good student can do these things? These are exceptional people.

[MYOS1634]

at least I think we can’t go wrong either way!

3 years at State School or 3 years at Top 25 college = you can’t go wrong.
1 year at state school = your child will not get into med school (it’s not possible due to the new requirements, MCAT timeline, etc) AND if he graduates within a year, will have a BA/BS thus won’t be eligible for financial aid for further courses to make him competitive for med school. 1-year at state school is the wrong way to go.

[mom2collegekids]

<<<
Don’t students apply to medical school in the fall of the final year of college?
<<

If they do, then they are LATE and likely won’t get interviews.

Students who intend on going to med school right from undergrad need to apply during the SUMMER (midJuly being the latest that I would recommend).

[mom2collegekids]

<<<
I thought the student completed the AS degree. He would still enter a 4-year school as a freshman?

[QUOTE=""]

[/QUOTE]

If completed while in HS, then he enters as an “incoming frosh” with junior standing. The difference is the aid and merit that he’d be eligible for. Transfers often get lousy aid and merit.

[thumper1]

Aid is not the issue. If he is entering as a first time freshman, most schools will give him the same aid he would get as any other first time freshman…even if he has junior standing due to the previously taken college courses.

But those previously taken courses will not be from a school where this student is a matriculated student.

The OP had their mind made up before starting this thread…and my gut feeling is she posted to get some validation that either of these plans would be good ones. That really hasn’t happened. Every time someone posts a reason why these options are not good ones, the OP comes back with the same response.

If the OP really doesn’t want this kid to be a doctor, the best thing to do is choose a college where the kid could get a four year degree in some other fields…if closet is an issue,mother 3-4 years at the public university should do it.

[i_wanna_be_Brown]

How many of the ivies even do advanced standing? For example Brown does not. This student would enter as a freshman and be expected to take 4 years to graduate (there is a process to petition for early graduation - it’s very rare and the reasons stated in this thread would certainly not qualify). All the credits would simply allow the student to skip intro level courses and take advanced courses day 1 if desired.

[i_wanna_be_Brown]

decided to investigate

Brown

To earn a Brown undergraduate degree, students are normally expected to complete eight semesters of enrollment. Students may advance their standing, and thus complete the degree in fewer than eight semesters, if they have approved Advanced Placement (AP) exam scores, international certificate program exam credits, or college credits from an approved program of study at another institution.

https://www.brown.edu/academics/college/degree/policies/advanced-standing
Looks like I was thinking of early graduation with no previous credits. You could get up to 1 year off with at least 7 APs not from these departments: Art History
Chinese Language and Culture
Chemistry
Computer Science
Economics: Macroeconomics or Microeconomics
English: Language and Composition or Literature and Composition
Environmental Science
Government and Politics: Comparative or U.S.
Human Geography
International Relations
Japanese Language and Culture
Music: Listening, Literature, and Theory
Political Science
Statistics
Studio Art Drawing and Studio General

Columbia

Credit is not granted for college courses taken while in high school.

http://bulletin.columbia.edu/columbia-college/regulations/

Cornell

Students matriculating as first-year students may not compress their undergraduate education into fewer than six semesters of residence

http://as.cornell.edu/academics/advising/upload/Acceleration-Worksheet-2.pdf
and

If a student is enrolled in a college or university course during his or her high school years up to 30 non-Cornell credits will be given only if all the following criteria are met:

Course cannot be used to fulfill high school graduation requirements.
Course/section must be a standard course available to all students registered in the college.
If taught in a high school, the high school must be a satellite location, one of several options available to all students taking the course.
Instructor must be a faculty member (includes adjunct) at the offering college.
An official transcript must be sent to the CALS Registrar’s Office by the offering institution. It is the student’s responsibility to request an official transcript.
Both the college form and high school form must be provided to confirm that all credit earned in high school meets these criteria. It is the student’s responsibility to request that the college and high school complete these forms. Forms are available in the CALS Registrar’s Office, 140 Roberts Hall.
Each condition must be met for credit to be accepted.

http://courses.cornell.edu/content.php?catoid=12&navoid=2076#College_Credit_Earned_While_in_High_School

Dartmouth
A little confusing and I don’t want to spend all day on this - don’t accept any AP credit anymore though
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~upperde/transfer/academic.html

Harvard

Advanced Standing, also known as “sophomore standing,” is an option that allows you to graduate in three years, or complete the AB/AM or AB/SM program in four years.

To qualify, you must meet scoring requirements in one of three exam options:

Score a 5 on a minimum of four College Board Advanced Placement tests
Hold a full International Baccalaureate diploma with three higher-level subject scores of 7
The College will also consider some other international credentials, and will review them on an individual basis. Students interested in having their international credentials reviewed must submit their records through a verification service. Please consult the Office of Undergraduate Education for more information.

https://college.harvard.edu/academics/planning-your-degree/advanced-standing

Penn
Looks the most liberal in terms of pre-college stuff, actually (too long too quote)
http://www.admissions.upenn.edu/apply/freshman-admission/ap-ib-and-pre-college-credit

Princeton

IV. AP Units and Subjects Required for Advanced Standing

1. Requirements for graduation in three years (by becoming a sophomore in the spring of the first year or a junior in the fall of the second year):

A.B. candidates need eight advanced placement units (equivalent to eight Princeton courses) distributed in at least three of the following subject areas in which AP is granted: foreign languages, historical analysis, literature and the arts, quantitative reasoning, science and technology, and social analysis.

A.B. candidates need a minimum of 23 courses to graduate, of which a maximum of two may be taken away from Princeton with prior approval.

B.S.E. candidates need eight advanced placement units, among them two in physics, two in mathematics, and one in chemistry. B.S.E. candidates need a minimum of 28 courses to graduate, of which a maximum of three may be taken away from Princeton with prior approval.

1. Requirements for graduation with three and one-half years of study (by taking off one term of the sophomore year):

A.B. candidates need four advanced placement units in at least two subject areas. A.B. candidates need a minimum of 27 courses to graduate, of which a maximum of two may be taken away from Princeton with prior approval.

B.S.E. candidates need four advanced placement units, including two in physics, one in mathematics, and one in chemistry. B.S.E. candidates need a minimum of 32 courses to graduate, of which a maximum of three may be taken away from Princeton with prior approval.

http://www.princeton.edu/pub/ap/

Yale
Too long to quote, looks like basically you get 1 credit per AP course so would need 8 APs to skip a year.
http://yalecollege.yale.edu/new-students/class-2018/academic-information/acceleration/award-acceleration-credit-based-advanced

[Much2learn]

This is an amusing thread. Everyone is trying to save this kid, but the parent does not want to be saved.

I suspect that once the student meets with a state school counsellor and begins classes, the fantasy will simply evolve into a more realistic reality, regardless of what the parent says. Even if you get a lot of base level credits, there is no way for a student to take a full load of all chemistry classes and labs at one time to complete the major. One way or the other, they will learn the reality of that. There are only 24 hours in a day.

[QuantMech]

The original poster apparently still thinks that 1 year at a state school prior to med school is a possibility. I see no way that this plan will work, in reality.

I had thought that students applied to med school in the fall of the year before they enrolled. mom2collegekids and others have corrected this to say that they apply in the summer before their final year of undergraduate work.

This would mean that if the student is attempting the 1-year-at-a-state-school route, the student would have to apply to medical school with zero time spent away from home, at a university. This is completely unrealistic.

[thumper1]

Yes, QM…and the student would be taking the MCAT During their last year of HS.

[Much2learn]

That is a good point thumper1. That may be the reality check. Let the student take the MCAT. To just have a 2/3 chance of admission to medical school, I would guess that he probably needs a total MCAT score over 35, and even higher than that if he is Asian. If he can do that then I still think it is a bad decision emotionally and developmentally, but at least it is potentially viable from a knowledge standpoint.

[MYOS1634]

@omslcm:
Wondering what happened …