And you really, really need some idea of his or her likely SAT or ACT scores before assuming that admission to an elite school is at all likely. Did your student take the PSAT? Is s/he planning to take the SAT or ACT this spring? I certainly hope so.
In case the scores turn out to be sub-par, look at the elite schools that are score-optional, such as Smith (if it is a girl) or Bowdoin (if a boy). (Look up Fairtest to get a list.) Your student should take a couple of SATIIs this spring or at the latest on the October testing date in subjects in which s/he is doing well. Math II and a science would probably be a good idea. Have your student take some TIMED practice tests in order to figure out which ones to take, and get the relevant review books so he/she can brush up on the material covered by the test. (Courses do not necessarily cover the same things.)
<<<
What is different are the admission rates to medical school.
[QUOTE=""]
[/QUOTE]
@much2learn You have much-to-learn about med school admissions.
[QUOTE=""]
I don't think that undergraduate education is something to rush through with a lot of sub-par "credits." It is the opportunity of a lifetime. Don't waste it.
[/QUOTE]
This so true!
I am so glad that my son had 4 full years of undergrad even though he could have graduated in less. He got to enjoy football games and championship games that he’ll remember forever. He played on 2 intramural teams (and still does while in med school).
Did I miss where the student’s test scores were mentioned? Is he a likely NMF? Does he have an ACT or SAT score that would get big merit somewhere (if parents are concerned about saving money for med school).
@Consolation, to most working stiffs, cost is a consideration. Yes, the college experience, taking classes you want to take, etc. are the experience of a lifetime. But then again, many experiences are the experience of a lifetime. I’m sure that sailing around the world in a yacht would be the experience of a lifetime as well, but that’s not one that I or many people can afford. That said, I do agree that there’s no rush, and you want to make sure that burnout doesn’t happen. However, that can be accomplished by gap years, etc. Maybe it’s because I’m not filthy rich, but I generally take a dim view of paying tuition for a kid to find him/herself.
What’s even worse is paying med school tuition for a kid to find himself. How do you pay back those loans without an MD and a hefty salary?
If this kid is such a great student he should be able to get a lot of merit money which should make college quite affordable. And if not, best to find that out now rather than rushing into med school applications and not getting accepted.
I know med school grads who have never practiced- not a day. They hated medicine. I know people who dropped out of med school after two years- the sunk cost couldn’t compensate them for how awful they found the entire experience. And I have a close friend living and working in Europe (where medicine is an undergraduate degree) who wishes that he’d done “anything but this”.
What’s the rush for a HS kid to race through without learning what medicine is really like? Not the 17 year old’s version- but what doctors actually do all day???
Yes, I am also thinking of a few people I know who discovered they really didn’t want to be doctors during or after med school. It may seem glamorous to a teen but I’d want my own child to be very well exposed to the working conditions and demands of the job before committing to that path. And I think the med schools want that from their applicants as well.
" most top colleges accept transfer students"
OP,
MOST top colleges have transfer acceptance rates that are a FRACTION of their acceptance rates for Freshman, for the simple reason that FEW students once at a top colleges actually LEAVE before graduation!!.
You need to head over to the Transfer forum and check out how LOW acceptance rates actually are.
You are making lots of assumptions that are NOT realistic. AT ALL…
“know med school grads who have never practiced- not a day. They hated medicine. I know people who dropped out of med school after two years- the sunk cost couldn’t compensate them for how awful they found the entire experience. And I have a close friend living and working in Europe (where medicine is an undergraduate degree) who wishes that he’d done “anything but this”.”
There’s a reason that a lot of the 6-year med programs have “converted” to 7 years. The kids just get too burnt out, thinking they want to be doctors at 17 because they have a sense what a doctor is, and then they rush through and it’s not a good experience.
Hmmn, many parts of the country are no longer under the traditional model of the per se, physician owned, physician group. Current data shows that hospitals are buying up medical practices at a hot pace. According to data from the American Hospital Association, the number of physicians employed by hospitals grew by 34 percent between 2000 and 2010, and that pace is still on track. By way of example, in 2004 only 11 percent of physician searches were conducted by hospitals, but by 2013 that figure had risen to close to 65 percent.
Thus, in most instances, the hospital itself, underwrites the expense of medical malpractice insurance.
Another factor to consider in planning a successful path into and through medical school is race. If you are Asian, the bar will definitely be set higher, and may impact what you need to do to be successful.
<<<
Sure, some colleges (T10) do better than others vs T100, but that is bcos the T10 selects for great test takers. Those without such skills need not apply. And since the primary way to score an interview for med school is the MCAT, it is only logical that the T10 will send more to med school (on a %) basis than #100, since #100 doesn’t have many tippy top test takers
<<<
this ^^^
The student with “top school worthy scores” who attends his flagship will likely that have the same (or better) chances of med school acceptance than his “twin” who chose to attend the tippy top school.
As a matter of fact, there is parent here on CC whose child went to an elite undergrad and ended up with a “good-but-borderline-for MD schools” GPA (with a totally acceptable MCAT). That student didn’t get ANY MD med school interviews during this app cycle. Shocking and painful for sure for this student and the parents who likely chose that school because of the perception that these elite schools open doors. Certainly, many believe that med schools will think that (for instance) a 3.5 GPA from a top school is equal to 3.7 at a lower ranked school…and that the top school applicant will get the nudge. It’s just not true.
There are aspects to the med school admissions process that will seem counter-intuitive.
Do I think that if that same student had matriculated at - say - Purdue or IUIC or UMaryland or OSU - the s/he would have a higher GPA and likely at least one MD acceptance? Yes, I do.
The “school” doesn’t get a person into med school. I see kids post on these forums who’ll write something like, “I want to go to X school because they have an 85% acceptance rate to med school.” That doesn’t mean that this kid will have an 85% chance of acceptance into a med school. No, not at all.
And of course, we know that many schools counsel those who are unlikely to get in to med school out of applying. SO yes, the ones who are left may have a good chance, but not all of those who wished to apply.
OP, it would be easier for everyone if you could share more information: grades, test scores, etc.
The difficult part about premed is that every student is different and how they react to things is different. What is the right path for one student may be the wrong path for another.
If given the choice, is it better to be a premed student at Ball State, Michigan State, the University of Michigan, Cornell or Stanford? It depends on how well they would fit in and how they would react to and take advantage of the opportunities presented in each environment.
Some parents will always say to take the cheapest route, and others will push for the top rated school that the student can get into. In my opinion neither one of those is right for everyone. The student experience can be significantly different at different schools and you have to find the place that is best for the individual student. Some students would be a success at any of the above mentioned schools, some would do well at some but not others. I suggest that all else equal, cheaper is better, but there may be reasons why cheapest may not be better. All premed programs are not identical.
Tons of responses and info I am absolutely amazed! I need to reread and absorb. Some VERY useful info and much appreciated.
I hate to keep getting bogged down in the courses taken and things I didn’t ask about I’ve spoken with the universities about the courses completed and what is left to take to receive the degree. 1 year/ 30 credits minimum. Courses left should take 2 to 3 semesters at the state university(s). I had those questions answered by the appropriate universities. The local college DOES offer 4 year degrees, and thus upper level courses which were taken AT the local college. None of this was ever an issue if going to a state university.
I’ve worked to a point of information to where I was at a crossroads and that was when I decided I needed help/advice. State vs. Ivy? Not to sound ungrateful I was hoping to focus on the actual question posed. I think the option to transfer into a higher level school and keep some of the credits would be ideal and somebody mentioned Cornell. Research, considering gpa to get into med school, etc. are all things I need to look into more. I’m making my list and will research. Those were valid and helpful points that I need to consider carefully. I posted the question I needed help with. I have more info now and things to think about from everybody and that helps!!! Going to reread the posts and research these issues.
Excellent point about DRs get paid the same regardless of school! My worry is upper specialties down the road that when looking at worthy candidates perhaps an upper level Ivy school will give the edge needed to get into a specialty field. Given their drive and background I’m assuming they will of course want to do some ridiculous specialty and spend even more years in school and residency! LOL We have an overachiever from birth.
I think people are focused on things I didn’t ask about. For the record I am personally NOT in favor of Med School and I already mentioned my reasons and they are just my own personal bias. Somebody posted a ROI article that I do want to look at. Maybe it will make me feel better! I already stated we made numerous mistakes in high school by not paying attention. My philosophy when they hit 9th grade was lets leave them alone. I told my husband if they take college courses they deserve the respect to let them make their own decision on things, ie lets TREAT them like a College student. I realize now we did not give the proper oversight during high school and mistakes were made. This time around decided to become proactive. I’m trying to look into college/ medical school and give an informed opinion on the next step(s), Yes of course ultimately the decision is theirs but I want to give good advice this time around!
Thank you all for the help and insight. Will reread and take notes and research!!!
Back off now. It’s time to see whether your neurosurgeon-in-the-making has enough interest and energy to work these issues like a grownup.
Of course your child will want to become a cardiologist or dermatologist. Unless he/she discovers ethno-musicology and decides that medicine wasn’t a good idea after all.
Time to walk away from your abundant research and see just how motivated your kid is to become an MD.
I’ve spoken with the universities about the courses completed and what is left to take to receive the degree. 1 year/ 30 credits minimum. Courses left should take 2 to 3 semesters at the state university(s). I had those questions answered by the appropriate universities. The local college DOES offer 4 year degrees, and thus upper level courses which were taken AT the local college. None of this was ever an issue if going to a state university.