Not to convince you otherwise as you know your child the best, but my vantage is from both my wife and her twenty years or so of being in medicine, and a daughter currently in residency. This is anecdotal but, internal medicine folks are probably the most socialized given the demands of their practice, with surgeons and pathologist on the on other end of the spectrum. The length of education say for a CT surgeon, has about 8 years of schooling over and above medical school. Large egos and finicky folks are not uncommon. And pathologist just work in their own private world. The shyness you see might be someone not comfortable talking about anything but medicine…I know I have gone or hosted like a zillion bbqs with doctors for almost 25 years now…
The direct answer to your question is to apply to both Harvard and the state school if those are the only two schools you are considering. It is irrational to take a school like Harvard off the table simply because your kids don’t want to sit for the SAT2s for half a day, or fill out a supplemental application. Quite honestly, I can not even imagine that someone who is as driven and gifted as you say would let such considerations factor into the decision making process. Kids who have the drive and intellectual gifts you describe should be trying to find the best environment to grow intellectually, to become the best they can be. Maybe that is Harvard, maybe that is an honors college at a big ten school. Heck, maybe it is Grinell, or Amherst or some six year med program. Lots of different kids, lots of different options. But a rational person would not take those options off the table based on what are really minor factors like number of applications and one test.
Most fundamentally, maybe some of your kids’ teachers, or some of the professors at the state school, can give you some worthwhile guidance on whether your kids will be intellectually and emotionally prepared for med school after a year of classes at the state school, and then maybe they need to make a decision on the best use of their time and assumedly your financial resources. No one here can give you that advice without knowing a heck of a lot more than you seem willing to share. But the consistent advice from a number of us here which you seem to be blowing right by is that that question is not even worth asking until and unless your kids are admitted to Harvard. You need to come to grips with the fact that the odds are likely somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-1 against that your kids get admitted, so why manufacture the stress now?
Just zoomed through the many posts since mine. Skip the idea of an Ivy. Most physicians will NOT have attended one. Most will go to the medical school they get into. This includes National Merit Scholars from HS, College Honors Program grads et al. Your child is no more special than the vast majority of students with medical aspirations. Check on where students from your state’s medical school(s) have gone to college.
Sounds like you and your child need a huge reality check. Remember- those AP and CC courses are NOT the same caliber as at most (or all) flagship U’s.
What do you want for your child? You are not in favor of the MD degree but are not willing to tell your child patience is required. S/he is too young to be rigid about the future. A college friend and I discussed our paths once several years ago- we both wondered if we should have chosen the other’s path- MD vs PhD. And that was after four years of college graduating around age 22. Despite all of the classes your HS student has taken s/he still has not taken really rigorous college level courses- his/her classes sound like those some HS’s have available in the building.
In some ways I think the ability to use AP course work to substitute for college work is a shame. Students miss out on extra exposure to many fields. I know even top flagship students will often take the college level intro courses because their school offers so much more material than AP does.
MATURITY. There is so much more to life as a physician than work. Your child has no concept of what s/he is missing. S/he will find peers at many schools that s/he hasn’t found yet. S/he needs to learn to work collaboratively with intellectual peers. Let him/her have a college experience, not just a race to get into medical school. Burnout by age 30 possible- then what?
It’s so much more than social maturity – it’s the ability to make life-and-death decisions, in a split second, under extremely stressful conditions. It’s being compassionate without getting too emotionally attached. It’s managing a team. Etc. Etc.
OP, your student should figure out what kinds of activities may be helpful in developing the skills to become a doctor. It doesn’t work when parents push an agenda (BTDT, didn’t work).
The cheapest that fits student the best is preferred option if Med. School is in plan. Harvard will not give a future Med. Student any advatantage over somebody who graduated from state public. This is from my D’s experience. Her Medical School class had many from Ive / Elite and good number of dvanced degrees (including PhD from Harvard). Everybody was on the same footing, nobody had any advantage, except a bit of heads up that couple Masters of Anatomy had. But the reason for having this degree was that they did not get into Med. School on the first try.
Yes, as noted above, social maturity is a great factor. D. pointed out that diverse crowd is the key to ability to connect to others. (I am not talking about racial or socioeconomical diversity, but rather intellectual devirsity, kids with different “focus”, not just intense academically focused pre-med crowd). One reason that D. did not care for any Elite colleges (beside obvious - price) was that she did not want to be always with the same people as at her private expensive very rigorous HS. That was her comment. Another way to be more socially mature besides attending state public was to have a Music minor, be active in her sorority and generally be involved in college life.
@MiamiDAP that was one of my thoughts that State U would save so much $$ and time, which years of life in med school is an issue. I don’t know if your child went to UM but heard excellent things about their med program and how well prepared their students are when finishing. If not accepted straight out of state U thought they could stay for Masters, that is nice to see that mentioned as valid option. Looked into the EMT thing and that is something they could do as well.
My child has had a unique and varied background and life experiences. However they are maybe shy in some ways. The medical program we liked included MD and PhD and was the school that had a 20 year old in their current class.
Thank you for the advice 
You keep not listening to what people are saying. Rushing to complete med school is not a good idea. It results in a doctor who may have technical knowledge, but doesn’t have soft skills.
I found that while my kids were shy at 16-17, they were much less shy at 22 and were able to converse with adults and peers in a more meaningful way.
Miami, don’t know how you did it but now I have a Miami U banner lol!
OP, I wonder if an accelerated BS/MD program would be an option for your S. That’s what MIAMIDAP’s D did. She opted out and went to another med school but if med school if the plan, it takes the angst out of getting into med school if you have a high performing HS student. You could address his AP and college credits with those programs. The BS/MD programs are very selective.
I thought the OP kept mentioning Cornell as an option, not Harvard.
I think it would take a very, very unusual student and a very, very unusual set of accomplishments to get into medical school with only one year at a state university–and the student would presumably be applying to medical school in the fall, before having completed any classes at the state university! I don’t see this plan working. What medical school would admit a student based on course work taken while in high school?
I suggest taking a look at the results threads at a set of top undergraduate schools. The high level of accomplishments and the strong records of students who are rejected from the top undergrad schools should indicate the level of competition.
And that’s your biggest mistake by far. The Ivy League schools have some name recognition, but they aren’t the best 8 universities in the US. The idea that you are eliminating schools like Williams, Amherst, Caltech, Harvey Mudd, Stanford and U of Chicago because they don’t happen to belong to the right athletic conference is crazy. And dumb. Speaking as a Harvard grad, so I know just what my education was worth.
A few things strike me:
- OP, you keep asking whether “they” (more than one child?) should go to an “Ivy” or a state school. Here’s what everyone is trying to say to you: It is NOT YOUR or YOUR CHILD’s DECISION. The decision will be made by the colleges, NOT by you or “them” (the pronoun you use to refer to the student). Consider this: “They” might only get accepted to state U. Indeed, “They” might get rejected from every college “they” apply to. You are completely glossing over the college admissions process, as if your child is a shoo-in. You say you made mistaken choices in hs. Well, being so rigid and only applying to Ivy and state u is a huge mistake.
- The way you talk about your high school student strikes me as a parent talking about a much younger child. There's also a sense of desperation in your posts. My advice: Loosen up and let the intelligent college- and med-school-bound student take the reins to research and discover the options. If "they" can't do it "themselves" then "they" are not ready for this journey.
- Finally, I have a question: What do/does "they" think of all this?
You are missing the forest for the trees.
Agree with post upstream a bit.
Have the kid take those SAT2 tests because they might be needed for college applications.
Apply to your instate option, and whatever other school you choose early. Then you will have your answer…early. Make sure you submit all financial aid materials on time too.
Have any other possible applications either submitted or ready to go just in case this student is not accepted early to the Ivy school. If accepted, you can withdraw the other applications if the student accepts the early admission offer of acceptance.
I believe that OP is right on a target and not missing anything.
As far as my D. - she did not go to U of Miami, she attended Miami of OH. Miami of OH does not have a Medical school at all. However, it was an excellent choice for my D., which will not fit everybody in a world. Got to find out yourself if certain college is your “good home” for few very important years of your life. Another note, while my D. was in combined bs/md, her program was NOT accelerated. She was accepted to other 2 bs/md, they were accelerated. She wanted to have a normal college experience in addition to a guaranteed spot. In fact, participants in bs/md at Miami kept it quiet about being in a program, they did not want any “social” set backs from other pre-meds, they could have any major and were part of general student body in all aspects of college life, while being hugely “privileged”. I am sorry, but suggestion to “loosen up” may not be applicable in case of pre-med. No such chance! Whatever they choose, they will have to plunge down to a very hard work right from day 1 or they may face a locked door. This has to be understood right up in front, D. witnessed good number of HS valedictorians “locking the doors” for thmeselves right after first sememster. Some were not serious about medicine, so it was a process of natural selection for them, not a biggy, but for some others it was a devastating blow. Do not let it happen. While the choice of college is NOT that relevent if Med. School is in plans, what student does at college is hugely important right from the day 1. Having surroundings that fit student is very helpful…
SAT2 tests while not perfect are (at a minimum) a good data-point on the rigor of the college equivalent courses you assume your kid has covered. A HS student might be acing bio and chem- but if he/she is getting scores in the mid 600’s, you’ll know there is work to be done before attacking pre-med requirements at the college level. Not that your kid isn’t plenty smart- just the courses haven’t been comprehensive.
Don’t students apply to medical school in the fall of the final year of college? If the student is planning on 2 semesters of a state university, the student would have no record from that university at the time of application. If the student is planning on 3 semesters, then the student would presumably apply in the fall, with 1 year’s worth of record at the university. And do what in the spring?
I disagree with MiamiDAP that the OP is “right on target and not missing anything.” How is the student going to be competitive with real chemistry majors, who took four full years worth of chemistry + more math + more physics + more biochemistry + more life sciences, and had research experience at a university + medically related volunteering + significant EC’s in addition to the medical volunteering?
I think the OP and the OP’s son/daughter should look at the AMCAS form that med school applicants need to fill out. It is hard to communicate what a good medical school application actually looks like, but the one-year (or one-and-a-half year) route is not it. All the blanks that need to be filled in would let the OP and son/daughter have some clue about it, though.
Also, seriously, does anyone other than the OP want to go to a physician who couldn’t be bothered to spend the time to take the SAT2’s?
Quant- or needed his/her mommy to figure out which credits would transfer? As we like to say here in corporate America when dealing with an administrative question- “it’s not like this is brain surgery”!!!
^^^^^Or to go to college for four years.
It’s not about getting the degree. It’s about getting educated.
Perhaps it is a minor point in this whole mess, but it reveals how little you know about higher education.
“English” is not something you “retake.” You can “retake” pre-calc, and the course will cover 99% of the same material. College, especially at an elite one, is not HS, and especially not in the way the humanities are taught. English classes are SPECIFIC. If your kid doesn’t like reading novels, s/he can take a course on Ibsen. Or a course on 18th century poetry. Or a course on Modern Drama. This is not “repeating English.”
I am banging my head on a virtual wall.
Actually applications are generally submitted in the beginning of the summer after junior year.
@Consolation the same is also true of the sciences once you get beyond the intro courses.