<p>"The MCAT though is largely a skills test, not a knowledge test - but the skills being tested aren’t really the skills that top unis are teaching better than lower unis. I would argue that what is being taught better at an ivy (or equivalent) is research and writing skills "</p>
<p>As for writing skills and/or multiple choice tests, I think it depends on one’s major. I doubt either of my kids had many multiple choice tests…but they were Math and ChemE majors. They did have to write a LOT for their Honors College seminar courses and literature courses. And, they did have upper division Writing Intensive courses…and both took more than the 6 required credits. </p>
<p>I know that the typical 100 level large lecture courses have multiple choice tests, but as class sizes shrink in upper division, more writing occurs. </p>
<p>I do agree that the MCAT is more than a knowledge test. Miami’s D probably has naturally good “skills” so the way she was applying her knowledge works well for her. Many people with naturally good thinking skills use them w/o much thought that they’re doing so. lol.</p>
<p>As I mentioned, only one semester of Honors English in college, and that one was complete waste of time, no skills obtained, but they did not not to be obtained, still a great writer, one of D’s strongest skills as part of great communication skills overall, which has been noted by many and continue so during her rotations.</p>
<p>I didn’t mean English/Writing skills. I meant critical thinking/processing skills. I’m guessing that your D has natural talents in that area. When she thinks she’s just spitting out “knowledge” on the MCAT, she’s really processing info, and providing best answers.</p>
<p>Seeking to be with people whenever possible will result in great communication skills. Writing a lot will develop writing skills, while reading a lot will result in great reading skills. By the same token, math will develop critical thinking. I would say, that the critical thinking is the most related to strong academics, particularly strong math and science program will develop great critical skills. But memory that is the most required in Med. School is probably mostly a gift from above. I never had it and never could develop it. Not sure if any Ivy will provide you with this skill.</p>
<p>Here is my take on going to an Ivy for pre-med. If you go to an Ivy and get top GPA (>3.8) and good MCAT (>36), you will be first inline to get the interview invites and acceptances at top medical schools. If you get mediocre or some what sub-par states from any Ivy, you MAY get some additional consideration at average medical schools.</p>
<p>I can show a lot of anecdotal data backing what I said, but it is still just that - anecdotal.</p>
<p>kal123, can you show us some result in medical school aceptance between Ivy and other good colleges? I wonder if Medical school cares colleges if the applicants are similar strength in GPA/MCAT/Research/…</p>
<p>I think any student with those stats would be “first in line” for II’s. You’re presenting this image of Adcoms knocking aside similarly qualified candidates from non ivies to quickly get those ivy applicants in the interview chairs. I doubt it.</p>
<p>I’ve posted before and I’ll post again. I watched my school’s adcom question the rigor of a 4.0 from a flagship state but not a 3.8 from an ivy. This was at the post interview stage though.</p>
<p>I still believe that being at the UG that fits you best will give you the best chances of admission but it is naive to think the school’s name and reputation has zero impact.</p>
<p>Thanks iwbb, I think this says it very well!</p>
<p>Contrary to the title of this thread, I personally would include all highly selective privates (research unis & LACs) and publics, not just colleges in the Ivy athletic league.</p>
I wish you were right. My son has 3.8+/38 and has no IIs from top 10 schools yet. I can show quite a few MDApplicant profiles of kids from Ivy schools with similar or slightly lesser stats already securing multiple top 10 IIs. Is all that success attributable to the brand name of their schools? I don’t know. Also, I am not necessarily saying that my son’s lack of IIs from top 10 schools can be attributed to his school’s lesser brand name, as he is from a pretty well respected non-Ivy himself. His situation probably has more to do with his committee packet delay and he might still end up with some IIs from top schools.</p>
<p>I don’t think the adcoms “knock aside” applicants with equal stats from other schools. However, its not beyond the realm of possibility that they may have a subconscious attraction to applications from the more prestigious schools.</p>
<p>I think some of this delay, kal123, is that many top ten are much slower out the gate to offer II than some other SOMs. You might be comparing your son to those applying for an MD/PhD.</p>
<p>I am so baffled when I look at that “other” forum and see tons and tons of kids with a <31 MCAT but >3.9 gpa. Why so many, or is it just that those with those stats are writing?</p>
Could the location of his home state and the location of his college be factors also? I always thought that applying to med schools is somewhat like real estate: location, location and location!</p>
<p>DS was applying a few years back and had stats slightly higher than your S on both GPA and MCAT. He did not apply very early (like the middle of July or even slightly later) and received multiple IIs from the schools you mentioned. Some CCer speculated back then that his school could possibly help him. This is because he was not one of those premeds who had been very enthusiastic about the medicine path since high school or even middle school. (And initially, he was even thinking about applying to his IS schools only as he somehow believed at that time schools in other states would not favor him, after he had seen some of his peer students struggling in the previous application cycle when he applied to schools on the other coast.</p>
<p>The class at his current med school does appear to have more share of Ivy college students. Slightly more than 20% from two Ivy colleges alone.</p>
<p>"If you go to an Ivy and get top GPA (>3.8) and good MCAT (>36), you will be first inline to get the interview invites and acceptances at top medical schools. "
-Here is my reply based on D’s experience.<br>
If you go to State Public and get top GPA (>3.8) and good MCAT (around 35), you will be first inline to get the interview invites and acceptances at top medical schools. You will, I guarantee. D. has applied to limited number of 7 schools, all around her hometown, but her list included top schools and she had great choices. She turned down and withdrew from some envious places.</p>
<p>I don’t want to look back over the thread but I believe another benefit of top tier education that wasn’t mentioned (since it really has nothing to do with pre-med per se) is the increased likelihood of building a network of friends/acquaintances who will be successful people in their respective (non medical) fields.</p>
<p>"Was her withdrawal from good medical schools due to the cost ? "
-She had to choose one school, she could attend only one.
She was looking where she fit the best and also which program fits her goals the best. She had to attend couple Second Look events, it was very hard to decide between two school. She wethdrew from others where she said she does not see herself going at all. Mostly it was program/student body, smaller considerations were city - was not particularly fond of couple of them at all.</p>
<p>Cost - nope, she ended up at the most expansive of her choices.</p>
<p>“the increased likelihood of building a network of friends/acquaintances who will be successful people in their respective (non medical) fields”
-And this has never been lacking in D’s life who has spent most of her free time (always!!) surrounded by friends, who are still very close and she continue pile them up (so to speak)…since the age of 3, yes, many are going that far,…
I guess for those who are less of a “socail butterfly” that might be great. But no college friends as close as they get would be as close as those who you have since you are 3 - 5 y o and multitude of them.</p>
iwbb, This reminds me of a conversation between one of my coworkers and me a few years back. (Both of us had college age child at that time.)</p>
<p>When I mentioned to him that DS commented that the most he appreciates in his college’s offering is the activities in the evening, my coworker said to me that “You should correct his attitude.” But this is really what DS believed back then, and he did not neglect his academics that much because of this attitude. (He did neglect “premed ECs” somewhat as I think he really did not want to focus too much on premed stuff in college.</p>
<p>The parents of his close friend/suitemate who was also a premed once joked with us (in their beginning of senior year) that DS has some “catch-up” work to do as a premed. That friend is a much more dedicated premed, who planned all the courses to take in 4 years in the first month of his freshman year, while DS’s academic advisor once said in an email to DS that he appears to have taken many courses in a random or even reverse order: occasionally the more challenging ones first and then the more introductory ones (but still required for graduation) later.</p>
<p>Because these colleges emphasize so much on the achievement in ECs in their college admission process, it is likely that the concentration of peer students who excel in various areas in ECs could be higher. Since DS enjoys one of these ECs, this could be a “good fit” factor for him, I think.</p>
<p>Another undeniable fact is that the “wealthy effect” of a higher percentage of the families of their students, for good or for bad, depending on how you look at it. I heard around 40-50% students are full pay.</p>
<p>BTW, I think somehow Brown and Yale tend to attract more students with this attitude. Maybe even more so at Brown than at Yale because the former has the open curriculum and the latter was originally estalished because their founders thought H had lost their “work ethics” at that time – thus “4 additional courses before graduation” policy exists till today.</p>