<p>ClassicRockerDad – MassResistance? To what? From their home page it appears to be a group obessed with homosexuals. I don’t have time to read through the whole thing so would you mind sharing what you know about the group – to say they are slanted to the right may be too mild a descriptive.</p>
<p>MassResistance - No doubt that these people are way out there, and please don’t confuse me as one of them (ouch!) but they HAVE taken actual news clippings illustrating some of Romney’s many baits and switches. </p>
<p>My point is more that no what your position is on any issue, it seems like Romney has supported you and opposed you depending on what was more politically preferable to his next battle. The platform that he’s using to run for president today could not have gotten him elected Governor of Massachusetts, his only political office, and the platform he ran for Governor on took a back seat to his run for the presidency as soon as the election was over. He almost makes a point of embarrassing Massachusetts to further his run for office and he not too popular here anymore.</p>
<p>“He’s cut from the same cloth”</p>
<p>There’s some truth to that, but he has a completely different agenda. If Giuliani were a tyrant about turning an airstrip into a park, he wouldn’t scare me so much. Daley doesn’t put people in jail for jumping a defective subway turnstile like Giuliani did to a friend of mine, and he’s not proposing to apply that strategy to foreign policy. Besides which, I didn’t vote for Daley for mayor, and I certainly wouldn’t for president.</p>
<p>“basically saved Chicago from becoming Cleveland or Detroit.”</p>
<p>He was one of many people who helped to do that. In the mid-80’s, before the current Daley administration, Chicago was already way ahead of Cleveland and Detroit.</p>
<p>I was there in the 80’s and the Washington administration had Chicago headed right down the tubes. Firms were leaving right and left. Daley changed the attitude and revived the city.
So you friend had a little run=in with the NY cops–getting control of crime in a large city means getting after the little crimes. Better to get respect for laws even if your friend had a bad day. It’s called the broken window approach.</p>
<p>I like Romney’s accomplishments and I like how he manages problems, although I think he might be a little too slick…</p>
<p>I got my CA absentee ballot this week and I’m undecided at this point.</p>
<p>I watched the debate last night on Fox News and surprisingly, the Fox focus group thought Fred Thompson won the debate…I’m still skeptical.</p>
<p>And here’s the crux of the problem…Hanna you blame Guiliani for your friend, NYC is one the largest cities in the world over 8.2 million, you are blaming him for a friend breaking the law…turnstile broken, backout of it and go into one that works. Guiliani had more issues to deal with then a slap on your wrist crime, but you blame him</p>
<p>Guiliani (I am not supporting him, I already have chosen a different candidate) has dealt with a larger budget than Romney and Huckabee combined. The pop for NYC is only about 10% less than the TWO STATES COMBINED (MA = 6.2, ARK = 2.7…total of 8.9) Romney and Huckabee have never had to deal with issues like Guiliani. Not sure, but my guess is that there are more illegals in NYC than MA or ARK. More people on Medicaid, more people with violent crimes, more world exposure (UN is in NYC, I am sure he came across some world leaders, especially after 9/11) Federal prosecutor who took down Gotti. Dealt with unions as a mayor. He actually on paper has it all…including a republican who is pro-choice…Problem his marriage, and Bernie Kierik. Just like a president will get hit for appointing a Secretary of X, that fact is something I think he will not be able to get over. My opinion, but that’s how I see it</p>
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<p>I also watched the debates and was just settling in for another repeat perfomance by all of the candidates (can’t blame them, there are too many debates and the same questions get asked again and again), when Thompson turned on Huckebee and ripped him a new one. I was like, “wow, where did this this guy come from?” My main reason for writing Thompson off was his laid-back campaigning style, but he showed some real fire last night. I think I need to throw him back into the pot of potential candidates.</p>
<p>“I was there in the 80’s and the Washington administration had Chicago headed right down the tubes.”</p>
<p>That’s your opinion, not some kind of empirical truth. Both sides of my family have been in Chicago (that’s Chicago the city, not Chicago the metro area) for one hundred years. There were so many important factors in Chicago’s survival as a great world city. Protection of the lakefront – which goes back to 1871 – is a big one. The University of Chicago choosing to stick with its community and not barricade itself is another. Support for the arts, which helped keep money in the city, is another. The list goes on. Daley’s on it. So are other people.</p>
<p>“It’s called the broken window theory”</p>
<p>I’m familiar with it, thank you. That doesn’t mean I buy it. It’s hotly debated by law professors and social scientists. Crime in New York plummeted at the same time it plummeted all around the nation; explanations for that phenomenon include equilibrium in the crack economy, Roe v. Wade, and many other factors. It’s not clear that arresting turnstile jumpers had anything to do with the drop in the murder rate.</p>
<p>Also? The train was leaving, and since the machine wouldn’t take my friend’s subway token, she <em>left</em>it<em>on</em>the<em>turnstile</em> and jumped. Most of us don’t consider it stealing if you put fifty cents on the newsstand counter, take a paper, and walk away. Do you expect to spend a night in jail for that?</p>
<p>As I said, too bad for your friend. Great way to make big decisions using microscopic anecdotal events.</p>
<p>I see. So you are arguing that there wasn’t a Giuliani-instituted, city-wide policy of arresting and taking into custody anyone observed committing the smallest misdemeanor, regardless of extenuating circumstances? You’re saying that this anecdote was not representative of the broken windows philosophy, but rather an isolated event?</p>
<p>That isn’t what you were arguing three posts ago. It seemed like you were applauding Giuliani for instituting that policy. So I’m wondering, how come my personal observation of how the policy impacted the life of a New Yorker is a microscopic anecdote, but your personal observation of how Mayor Daley’s policies improved Chicago is…something else? Controlled longitudinal sociology research, perhaps?</p>
<p>“Guiliani had more issues to deal with then a slap on your wrist crime, but you blame him”</p>
<p>Uh, he was on TV proudly taking credit for the police attention being focused on slap-on-the-wrist crimes. That was his whole M.O. A lot of people were arguing against him that he ought to be dealing with the “other issues” that you mention instead of sending the police out to fight graffiti taggers. So he’d be the first to take the credit for my friend’s arrest; she’d have been on the nightly news if he had anything to say about it.</p>
<p>“Also? The train was leaving, and since the machine wouldn’t take my friend’s subway token, she <em>left</em>it<em>on</em>the<em>turnstile</em> and jumped. Most of us don’t consider it stealing if you put fifty cents on the newsstand counter, take a paper, and walk away. Do you expect to spend a night in jail for that?”</p>
<p>Turnstyle jumping is a serious thing and is always treated as such by the police. Back in 2003, most subway stations had attendants back then who would open the gates if asked, and subways come very frequently, so no need to turnstyle jump. Also, it’s usually a ticket unless the perp gives the cops attitude.</p>
<p>“Back in 2003”</p>
<p>This happened in the mid-90’s, early in the broken window campaign. I think a ticket is the right solution, too. My friend gave no attitude (there were many witnesses). She wasn’t carrying state ID; she was a student on her way home late at night from a day at Coney Island. The cops refused to take her home where she had means of ID, or allow her to verify her name by any other means, such as her credit card or calling her parents. I don’t think it was a good use of resources to cart her off to jail instead.</p>
<p>Yes, the cops had it in for your poor friend who goes around without basic ID. Boo-hoo. All students should be exempt from the law because we know they are nice people.</p>
<p>I’m sorry, which is the law requiring U.S. citizens to carry state-issued ID on their person when taking the subway?</p>
<p>“I’m sorry, which is the law requiring U.S. citizens to carry state-issued ID on their person when taking the subway?”</p>
<p>The law of common sense? Especially if you decide to break a known law.</p>
<p>barrons, ff, give me a break. No, it’s not a good idea not to carry state-issued ID, but it’s also not a crime. Sorry, but in the real world, not displaying common sense is not carte blanche for the police to do whatever they want to you.</p>
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<p>I read it someplace. I don’t remember where I read it, but I’m not making it up!</p>
<p>I just did a search and found this:</p>
<p>[Addressing</a> age issue, McCain says he may seek only one term - The Boston Globe](<a href=“http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/01/03/addressing_age_issue_mccain_says_he_may_seek_only_one_term/]Addressing”>http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/01/03/addressing_age_issue_mccain_says_he_may_seek_only_one_term/)</p>
<p>Hanna,</p>
<p>I was born and raised in NJ. I would have to go to NYC for business when Dinkins was mayor, I lived in fear riding the subway (kept my jewelry hidden under clothes and gloves, never looked at anyone). My co-worker was robbed on the subway , she ate her engagement ring instead of handing it over, we gasped and said are you crazy the ring isn’t worth your life. Rudy as a mayor cleaned the city up…for g*d sakes they even started to have concerts in grand central (carly simon quickly comes to mind).</p>
<p>Your friend may have left a token on the turnstile, but here are a couple of quick points.
1. Unless it was at midnight, there would be another sub in 10 min. or so. It wouldn’t be like she would wait for 30 min to an hr.<br>
2. Grand central where the subways are, are run under the MTA (Mass Transit AUthority) which is a public organization of NEW YORK. Thus she was arrrested by the MTA not the police. Think TA in airports
3. Police officers in NYC are overtaxed and underpaid. They are not sitting there saying “RUDY SAID ARREST EVERYONE”, they see a crime happening and reacted upon it…if any credit should be given it should be given to the DA for prosecuting the crimes</p>
<p>“if any credit should be given it should be given to the DA for prosecuting the crimes”</p>
<p>Huh? She wasn’t indicted; she was arrested. There was no prosecution involved.</p>
<p>Look, ultimately this is a political question that people are going to see differently. Rudy took a lot of pride in going on TV and saying “We’re cracking down on the little stuff.” Most sources agree that there was indeed a crackdown on enforcement of misdemeanor laws during the Giuliani years, just as he advertised. Beyond that, there are no more facts, just interpretations. My friend and I think this was a waste of limited police resources and likely unrelated to the crime rate falling, which happened nationwide. We’re also pretty nervous about what Giuliani would do if he had a lot more power to search and intimidate citizens. Others think his policies were a great use of resources because they deterred drug deals and murders, so Giuliani should get more power. Unless some economist comes out with new data, there’s not really anywhere to go from there.</p>
<p>Sorry to veer this back to the original topic:</p>
<p>Reagan and his team brought together different factions that neither Bush the elder nor his son were able to hold together. The Dems are notorious for not being able to pull together their faction so the GOP is experiencing the same thing now.</p>
<p>BTW, many more Dems are satisfied with their various options than the Reps are. Most of you on the GOP side have a favorite but it remains to be seen if you can rally around the eventual nominee and bring the independents with you.</p>