<p>As a (grad student) calculus instructor who has the power to assign grades, I can say that in my class, the median grade was a B+, so if you have a B, that actually means you are below average. If you have a C that’s actually close to failing; I didn’t actually give any D’s or F’s. Basically, grade inflation is the reason a B is no longer a good grade; I know that my approach (at UChicago) is not unique in my department, and when I was at Caltech, reputed to be a tough school, the same was mostly true.</p>
<p>One does not simply praise Bs on CC.</p>
<p>B is not bad</p>
<p>If you are an engineering major and has a B+ in Physics I, I suggest changing major right now before you graduate with a 2.0 GPA.</p>
<p>I hope that was a joke about physics 1 and engineering. Usually, at major engineering schools, the general physics and calculus sequences are much tougher than the engineering courses themselves (which have more than just difficult exams. In such classes, you can raise your grade via projects and homework. The tough engineering schools typically don’t grade the homework. In addition, the actual engineering courses are way more hands on, and for most interested in engineering, that’s the easiest way to contextualize the concepts, especially physics), at least when it comes to grading. Take Georgia Tech for example, where a physics section can have 250-300 students, yet the ending course GPA be about a 2.2 (after curving. If there was no curve, like 1/2 of the class would fail or get a D, because the exam averages are between 50-65 and occasionally lower), and this is in a section that is considered to have a very good professor. The class is -just plain difficult. If I were at a school w/a +/- grading system and got a B+ in a class where the average was below 2.5, I’d realize that I am in a pretty solid position. If I were at MIT, I would take the B+ (I heard that, even though they are private and extremely high caliber, the main goal for engineers is to simply survive the physics series as about 1/5-1/4 will get D/F. MIT students better be thankful for pass/no record in the first year).</p>
<p>I’ve taught several college courses, and many students would be very upset with B’s. The spread in my classes tended to be A,B,C ( very few C’s, rarely any D’s, and I never saw an F), so B or B+ were the typical averages for most of these classes. The expectations for each grade level were outlined at the beginning of each class as well.</p>
<p>However, as an instructor, my main frustration was that many of their scholarships depended on minimum GPA’s, and unfortunately even a “B” could skew their average. That adds a whole new dimension, and could be financially very costly! I asked the administration to consider that dilemma many times. I do not know of anyone who lost their scholarships as a result, but the pressure is real.</p>
<p>MAKE SURE to ask about minimum GPA requirements for any merit based aid, and if high, ask for class averages. I think many students just assume they will continue to get all A’s in college if they did in high school, but they forget that they are now in a more selective pool.</p>
<p>Bernie, your description of engineering courses at top schools does not fit Michigan at all</p>
<p>Like many of you have been saying, college becomes the time when the over-achieving high school student has to realize that the B, or even the 3.9, is okay. They’re so used to the perfect, sometimes easily attained 4.0 in high school that it’s hard to accept the fact that it’s a lot harder to achieve that in college. Definitely speaking from experience.</p>
<p>At elite colleges, you find yourself surrounded by hoards of intelligent and hard-working classmates, such that the median for humanities courses rises as high as A-. Whatever you do, you don’t want to find yourself at the bottom [half] of your class. Consequently, you consider every grade below the median failing.</p>
<p>ThisIsMichigan:However, it fits many. At many engineering schools, the course averages of engineering dept courses are typically higher than introductory physics sequences. Most places I know of use the calc. based physics series as an engineering weedout (where getting a C grade means you are qualified to move forward. At privates or grade inflated schools, C+/B- I think). There is no doubt that engineering classes, in general, are very demanding in terms of workload, but often it’s easier to pull an A or B in them than in the gen. mechanics and E and M sequences at many of the places that rank highly for engineering.</p>
<p>kwu: Yeah, I honestly think this indicates that many humanities profs. at elite schools are not really willing to grade more rigorously and push the students but so hard. As smart as those who attend elite schools are, I must admit that some of my HS social science courses graded more rigorously and perhaps expected more than many of the profs. in college. That’s a grade inflation problem and the humanities and social sciences faculty members should kind of be ashamed of how out of control it has gotten. It doesn’t do us any good other than inflate our grades. Many people, who are already solid, would be much better writers, or thinkers in general, if profs. in these depts were just a little more honest. If they can’t do it w/grading for fear of ruining students career goals, they can at least do a more effective job at providing feedback (comments and stuff. Some profs. would just put a grade there with little to no commentary/feedback other than a few marks on punctuation. Better profs., even if you get an A grade, have stuff to say for you to improve. Heck I’ve even been in classes, where the grade on the assignments or papers was lower than what would ultimately appear on people’s transcripts. There is something phony that happens in many of these classes, just saying…). As hardworking and intelligent as those in my cohort were, I reflect back and know that we didn’t do as well as we could in many of the humanities and social science courses simply because we came in knowing that they inflate like crazy and for them to give even a B or B+ would be completely unexpected even if we threw together a paper at the last minute (lots of people do this, even at the elites. Sometimes we don’t work that darned hard at all, but the faculty don’t want to deal w/critiquing us so give us grades that say other wise). Anyway, I typically found that the social science courses or humanities courses that gave more B’s were often better because they simply demanded more engagement w/the material and it resulted in more lively discussion in class. The ones that gave all A grades were typically very boring and had low participation. Often at elite schools, grades in non-science courses reflect our expectations and entitlement more so than the actual quality of our work. However, we love telling ourselves that it reflects the latter and that we always deserve a high grade (even if we did it the night before).</p>
<p>It depends on the major and school. </p>
<p>In my area, it’s difficult to get an interview with a top accounting firm if your GPA is below a 3.5, and damn unlikely/impossible if your GPA is below a 3.0. </p>
<p>When the grads scales goes 4.0…3.7…3.3…3.0…2.7, You really need to try to get as many 4.0’s and 3.7’s as possible. So getting B’s or even B+'s, although not the end of the world, is dissapointing. </p>
<p>Scholarship, grad school, class expectations, and parental considerations also all factor in. </p>
<p>With that said, there were definitely those classes where I studied my butt off and was extreemly happy to see a C on my exams. I also, personally, would get frustrated when getting a “lower” grade in a class that I deemed to be relatively easy.</p>
<p>“At elite colleges, you find yourself surrounded by hoards of intelligent and hard-working classmates, such that the median for humanities courses rises as high as A-.”</p>
<p>This is very debatable. It all depends on the grade scale that the professor/school uses and not necessarily the student’s intelligence and/or work ethic.</p>
<p>@reesezpiecez103 same thing happened to me this term. I took two semi-rigorous courses this term and I received a 89-88% in both classes. Unfortunately neither of my Professors allowed extra credit so I’m forced to have the grade that I have. Although I am grateful, I just wish that I could’ve gotten that A. :-D</p>
<p>My school doesn’t do pluses and minuses, which sucks because it would really help my GPA a lot. My GPA isn’t that good, since I messed up in my second semester of college (moving from country to country, not having reliable internet service, dealing with family problems, etc). Since Fall 2011 I’ve gotten mostly A’s and B’s, but because of my financial ability I’m not allowed to take a full load of classes like I used to :(</p>
<p>The answer to this question:</p>
<p>“Welcome to CC”</p>
<p>I dont think a B is bad but try harder</p>
<p>Grade inflation is rampant. It’s not hard to get an A today as it was years ago. The achievement means nothing since it’s given by the handful. “A” students are a dime a dozen.</p>
<p>it seems the most competitive internships require a minimum GPA of 3.5</p>
<p>if ‘everybody’ is getting a 3.5 or damn close to a 3.5 then I don’t see how that would help companies filter out the chaff from the wheat</p>
<p>Bernie, if you have any high school experience with physics I would say intro physics are not that hard. Sure, the average on exams in my class were like 55% but that class isn’t full of just engineers. Any serious prospective engineering majors shouldn’t have a problem with it. Same thing goes for chem. </p>
<p>At least that’s my opinion.</p>
<p>Also most of my engineering courses here are exam based and almost a have graded homework</p>
<p>“Grade inflation is rampant. It’s not hard to get an A today as it was years ago. The achievement means nothing since it’s given by the handful. “A” students are a dime a dozen.”</p>
<p>Not sure I completely agree with this.
a) I know that most of my undergraduate classes would have a median/average grade ranging from C to B- (mostly being a C+ probably).
b) You can made the argument that students are MUCH more motivated nowadays then they used to be. </p>
<p>A’s still mean something. It is just that we are not the slacker generation and many of us take school quite (too?) seriously AND so many more kids are going to college there is naturally going to be more A students competing for those (declining?) job postions.</p>
<p>Ever since Indians and Chinese came in.</p>